The grumbling about the Wii never seems to let up, or so it seems these days. This time it's from Greg Zeschuk, president of BioWare (and obviously a guy who enjoys high end graphics, if the games his company puts out are anything to judge him by). Here's what Greg had to say about Nintendo's little white cash cow in a recent GameDaily interview:
"Experiences [on the Wii] are much more like a toy experience .. they're playing, together or not, but you're not 'gaming' anymore. . . . If gaming is defined by story, then generally the Wii may not be."
Now, I don't think of a toy experience as a bad experience, but I also disagree respectfully with Mr. Zeschuk. Playing a Wii game and playing a PS2 game are still essentially the same action as far as I'm concerned, even if the graphics or content are different -- you hold a controller and you interact with an activity or story of some kind. At the point which you start to pick apart what gaming is or push casual gaming outside of it, labeling it "not real gaming" seems to be an unnecessary segregation.
Ray Muzyka, BioWare's CEO, disagreed with Zeschuk, saying:
"I think it IS gaming ... when you look at a moment to moment experience what a player does on a Wii game, it's different, lighter, and more toy-like. But there's also a narrative between the players outside the game and kind of fulfills the same things games do. Games are "toys" in the sense that they're fun."
This is a pretty interesting point of discussion, in my sometimes-not-so-humble opinion. What do you think -- would you call the Wii a toy rather than a console? Is there a line that separates "real gaming" from "casual"?
[Via Bit-Tech.net -- Thanks Jonathan]
Contest:
2:02 PM on 04.25.2008
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In before 204 comments about how awesome the Wii is.
I mean, Bioware's games are more movie-like than game like. So maybe we're not really "gaming" when we're interacting with their product?
Sounds like he needs to get off his high horse and realize that "to game" is "to play".
I'll leave it to others to make jokes about "playing with your Wii".
But it boggles me when developers and big industry players express these generilzed console image statements ripped from the USA Today console rundown.
To me, the console's only limitation is by what is actually attempted, released, and found to be implemented well.
The Wii can work well, but I think its thinking like "the wii is a toy" that shows a lack of effort, passion and sense of exploration that the console as a platform requests of its developers.
After playing very good experiences like Metroid Prime, its disappointing that no one's willing to just jump the fuck in a take the risk of actually developing a game *right* for the Wii.
Its also unfortunate because this attitude is only supported by looking at the Wii shelf in gamestop. Loads of mini games compilations, near direct ports with lackluster implementation of Wii controls.
Its not a perfect system. Nintendo is doing a lot of things wrong, but come on. I think its just developer fear and self imposed limitations, like the statements from BioWare, thats keeping a hardcore gaming culture from thriving around the Wii.
The reason why people don't want to work on the Wii is because of Nintendo and lack of hardware power. Nintendo only wants their games to be the ones that sell.
Can we move on?
ok . . . but that doesn't preclude it from having the ability to offer solid gameplay experiences.
@JACK
Hardware power, shmardware power. River City Ransom is fun as hell. N+ is a blast. Geometry Wars is slick and slightly passable Ikaruga experience could probably run on a high end cell phone in Japan.
That's what I'm getting at though. Its got a very different way of interacting with a game, which people could very well play into and create solid experiences no less valid than a Mass Effect or an Assassins Creed.
I think its mostly the software developers (Nintendo included: first party development house really hasn't tapped into using the controls extensively) to blame for not stepping up to it and making something out of it.
But, this is a business and all, and risk doesn't always wear well at shareholder meetings. :p
We know that, mainly because its creaming them both.
All the companies bashing the Wii as a console are the ones who make big, shiny games for what they consider to be the 'hardcore' crowd. They'll never make a game for the console and therefore have quite a sizable desire to see it fail.
These people have invested in a strategy that revolves around the Xbox and PS3 and ever-escalating graphics and realism...and that strategy is currently getting it's butt kicked by a console that emphasizes fun and style and doesn't even do some of the things they accepted as "completely necessary" like online play very well.
Of course they are making comments like this... and if their idea of evolution is Mass Effect > Baldurs Gate...don't sign me up, anyway. :)
Wii's on top so it is an easier target
Windows is on top so Mac and linux users gang up on it
Walmart No. 1 Retailer so you have anti walmart groups
Point being it easy to pick on the guy on top. Is the Wii perfect hell no it has a list of things that should be changed....but then again so does X-box and the PS3, Hell the DS has problems. The wii is something diffrent...and diffrent tends to cause shockwaves if it doesn't follow the nice neat path most people plan for things to follow.
For his comment on story....I've played 8-bit games that have better stories and characters then alot of modern ons with Flashier graphics and Improved sound/ voice overs. Sure Bio-ware Makes excellent story driven games but most of the gaming community will agree they are one of the few.
All And All it's just another guys opinion people will agree with him other won't and the world moves on
@ JACK of No Trades
Why the Hell would nintendo only want their games to sell....they arn't going to expand thier market that way. the problem is that they and a few other companies are the only ones that take the time needed to develop the game correctly everyone else is out for a quick buck.
Also for all the people that complain about all the shitty games their is out for the Wii look at the PS2 yeah thier are some really great games on it and even alot of average but their is a hell of alot of crap out on it too...nmostly because it was number 1 in market share
Because Nintendo makes most of their money from first party fucking games. If other companies started rivaling and surpassing their quality in games Nintendo would lose profit.
Although I am by no means a fan of the Wii, you are exactly spot-on.
Games are about having fun. Games are about having fun. Games are about having fun. Games are about having fun. Games are about having fun. Games are about having fun. Games are about having fun. Games are about having fun. Games are about having fun. Games are about having fun. Games are about having fun. Games are about having fun. Games are about having fun. Games are about having fun. Games are about having fun. Games are about having fun.
To me, that is the difference between "hardcore" and "casual." It's defined by the gamer not the game. If you're willing to play Metal Slug until you can beat the game without continuing, you're hardcore.
People get sick (purchase Wii).. and they are sick for a little while (longevity of their games) ... then they get better (Wii collects dust).
Yeah I went there.
I'm Glad to see your an economics major and access to Nintendo's business plan. They don't make most thier money from the games they make it off of peripherals and thier hardware...thier game attachment rate it rather low. Yes most of that games are Nintendo's 1st or 2nd party games....but that has more to do with the fact that Nintendo's games have a history and because Nintendo has high quality control on their games......unlike other companies and a lot of thier franchises EX: Megaman, Sonic, Tomb Raider. So yeah they make a lot of money off thier first party games and i do agree they tend to reley on them a little///lot to much (i Can't stand Mario party).....but i could also pick up Mario and Zelda and know that they may no be prefect but they are usualy way better then most of the compition out there.....and most consumers follow that idea of going with what they know instead of trying something new
Nilcam nailed it. I'm adopting that point of view as my own.
clearly cuz you're sick, man. Put your mask back on.
Re: nilcam's take
I love it. I like both types of games, and I think everyone has the capacity to enjoy both. as much as I'm geeking out on Assassin's Creed, Half Life2 and COD4, getting into something less story involved like Blazing Lazers, Devil's Crush and N+ is refreshing, and just good simply, "storyless" fun.
and yet it sells like hotbuns :-)
but I have to admit he's partly right... I get more into the game on my 360/PS3 at the moment but that's not entirely the fault of the hardware, the developpers are to blame the most :-)
Nuts to him. Whatever is fun gets my vote for good "gaming", regardless of the story.
The funny thing is that if/when both Microsoft and Sony both go serious with motion control (as both have strongly indicated they will), all the companies like Epic, Bioware, and all the haters will be left in the dust.
Anyone commenting on Destructoid is likely a gamer- so if you play Wii and it isn't collecting dust, you're in the minority of the mass amounts of people who buy it because it looked fun at their friends house.
The motion isn't his complaint. It's the games on the Wii that are purely waggle games without any story. All systems are guilty, but the Wii seems to be overdoing it with the number of such games. Motion can be successfully added into games with good stories
Fun Fact: The Desert Tortoise lives in the desert
@ Sphinx 13: And Will Wright said the Wii is the only true next-gen system; and PS3 and 360 are simply more of the same. What's your point?
^_~
That may be true, but obviously he didn't doctorate in.... fun! AHHAHAHAHA...*cough* I'm sorry...
No, really, I'll be getting Mass Effect PC but this comment is just plain dumb. His definition of a "game" is just too strong on the story-aspect, on the other hand, if you asked Miyamoto about his definition of a game he'd say it's about the gameplay. The thing is, everybody has to find his own "mixture". It's not like Mass Effect has no gameplay at all but so does Mario feature a story.