surf dtoid with 
Rising (10+)
People you follow
"I have no idea how a company can go from making one of the most expansive RPGs of all time (Baldur's Gate) to a shell of their former self, into an almost Molyneuxian parody state."
I'll watch the panel after work, but allow me to clue you in, MagnaChris. The declining quality of their titles may have something to do with their annexation in the evil EA Empire, and EA's hostility to delaying a release date when a game clearly needs more work.
I'll watch the panel after work, but allow me to clue you in, MagnaChris. The declining quality of their titles may have something to do with their annexation in the evil EA Empire, and EA's hostility to delaying a release date when a game clearly needs more work.
Weren't those the 3 most fan requested items for DA3? Kind of sad that such simple things are the most requested if so.
Did that cosplay chick just introduce Bioware's creative director? I'm pretty sure they don't have one of those...
I get that equipment for you followers, non-recycled levels, and decisions that matter are not groundbreaking, but they are things they left out of their last game. I don't feel they are announcing it as some enormous deal, but rather just acknowledging their past failures and claiming they will do better. I see no reason to mock this.
For me the decline of the Baldurs gate guys havent been the EA buy out.
It was full 3D games, the baldurs gate games are pure rpg bliss but then came Never winter nights. A bland dull... bleh game, i could see how the efforts was put into creating a shiney 3D world insted of the epic well writen stories of their earlier work.
It was full 3D games, the baldurs gate games are pure rpg bliss but then came Never winter nights. A bland dull... bleh game, i could see how the efforts was put into creating a shiney 3D world insted of the epic well writen stories of their earlier work.
@Tristix: While I preferred Origins, 2 really wasn't all that bad. I had quite a bit of fun with it. Loved backstab. In fact if I hadn't tried that class and ability, I never would have tried the Vangaurd in ME2/3 and would have missed out on an awesome class. Still love Sentinel the most though.
I hear there working on a idea in where u walk on a world map and fights break out randomly, sounds pritty cool
For some reason, I don't think that the Biodrones know when to clap at something that is actually innovative and not shit that's been around since the dawn of time. The fall of BioWare just feels like it's come completely out of the blue. I know that I didn't expect this when I bought ME2 this time two years ago.
I'm not even too keen on BioWare, myself.
Also, I'd tap dat.
I'm not even too keen on BioWare, myself.
Also, I'd tap dat.
Yet another opportunity to enlighten anyone planning on purchasing any game from BioWare on day one/at full price...don't.
Or rather don't drop $60 on the damn thing and then bitch when it inevitably disappoints you. Purchase their games for $20-$30 and preferably in their GOTY/Ultimate forms and you *might* actually enjoy the experience.
BioWare = Bargain bin. (it's a mantra which will serve you well RPG fans)
Or rather don't drop $60 on the damn thing and then bitch when it inevitably disappoints you. Purchase their games for $20-$30 and preferably in their GOTY/Ultimate forms and you *might* actually enjoy the experience.
BioWare = Bargain bin. (it's a mantra which will serve you well RPG fans)
The joke behind the panel was they were purposely being overly obvious about the omissions of 2 and what they plan on adding back/focusing on for the "hypothetical" Dragon Age 3. The cosplay comment was simply stating that with their art design they've created characters that people cared enough about to dress up as.
And basically what joboking said, they weren't talking about these things as the next big thing.
And basically what joboking said, they weren't talking about these things as the next big thing.
Agreed with jboking. I feel like this article (and a lot of others) is just grasping at straws in order to get on the Bioware hate bandwagon. Bioware may have taken a couple of steps backwards in the past few years, but they're still one of the better developers out there. The fact they even publicly acknowledge their mistakes and promise to correct them in the future is commendable. Most devs don't even bother, and don't get nearly as much hate for it.
Just watched the video. Echoing what ricochetguro and joboking said, I don't see anything to mock here. Just sounds to me like they're acknowledging the obviously shortcomings of the last game, and not even in a Molyneux-esque "last game sucked, next will rock" hype cycle. The guy struck me as genuinely humble about his failures and excited about his potential successes.
I see nothing wrong whatsoever with that.
I see nothing wrong whatsoever with that.
Just as a clarification I mean that their art design led to character designs and a signature look that players could identify with. Not that the art design along led them to care for the characters.
Oh, Jessica, what happen to us?
Was it too much?
Was it not enough?
Was I happy then?
I don't think I ever was...
Oh, Jessica!
To abuse a very wonderful Tim Kasher song.
Was it too much?
Was it not enough?
Was I happy then?
I don't think I ever was...
Oh, Jessica!
To abuse a very wonderful Tim Kasher song.
Any word if there is a system where one earns some type of 'experience' that unlocks progressive 'abilities'? Jesus, I hope not. I only enjoy RPGs that are watered-down to the lowest common denominator. All the shit that makes them fun has gots to go. It makes sense.
Pressing BUTTONS to perform ACTIONS.
Still, we learned that if you want to have a positively received panel, just pump enough hallucinogenic gas into the room.
Still, we learned that if you want to have a positively received panel, just pump enough hallucinogenic gas into the room.
The old bioware are dead, Mike Laidlaw is a fucking moron and he is gonna ruin Dragon age 3 just like he ruined Dragon age 2,Seriously fuck this guy for ruining my favourite franchise!
People say JRPG developers are dead when the same ideas are being reused by Western RPG developers. That's why it is BS and there is so much bias in the gaming media.
Both sides make great games and not all of them are completely original idea, nor do they need to be.
Both sides make great games and not all of them are completely original idea, nor do they need to be.
I'm with Tristix, ricochetguro, and joboking on this.
I think Chris is taking the most negative view on this video clip that one could realistically take. A large part of that clip is them making fun of themselves and acknowledging shortcomings of DA2, yet people are now getting mad about this all over again? I was disappointed in DA2, as many people were, but what's wrong with the video?
And I appreciated hearing the part about keeping a character's identity while swapping armor, so that you don't end up with a party full of identity-less suits of armor/robes. Yet, somehow this was translated as "They even spend close to three minutes talking about customizing outfits with genre bending ideas such as "color"." ... Really?... I assume you started watching the video with the intent of shitting on it.
I think Chris is taking the most negative view on this video clip that one could realistically take. A large part of that clip is them making fun of themselves and acknowledging shortcomings of DA2, yet people are now getting mad about this all over again? I was disappointed in DA2, as many people were, but what's wrong with the video?
And I appreciated hearing the part about keeping a character's identity while swapping armor, so that you don't end up with a party full of identity-less suits of armor/robes. Yet, somehow this was translated as "They even spend close to three minutes talking about customizing outfits with genre bending ideas such as "color"." ... Really?... I assume you started watching the video with the intent of shitting on it.
I was at that panel, and its really not as bad as it sounds.
For the level design, they were mainly talking about the re-using of a lot of maps in the dungeons of DA2. I'm pretty sure that's easily attributable to cost-cutting on EAs part. The dungeons themselves were rpetty sweet, but after the first Act, you stopped seeing any new ones.
As for the "equipment" issue, I vastly preferred DA2's inventory over DA1 or something like ME1 where everyone you killed would just have an equipment diarreah and it became extremely tedious to keep track of it all. And as for the "cosplay" issue, they were jsut referring to having mor unique character designs so you could tell with just a glance at the screen who was who. Like Isabella. Her outfit was quite distinct and made it very easy to keep track of her on the battelfield.
As for the decision issue, I can sympathize a bit with them with the difficulty in giving the player too many choices. The third novel deals with the aftermath of the DA2 chantry story, so its easy to see where they're taking that world. If players are given too many choices, it would be hard to guide the story as effectively.
And David Gaider is pretty cool. He signed my books as himself and as Brother Genitivi :)
For the level design, they were mainly talking about the re-using of a lot of maps in the dungeons of DA2. I'm pretty sure that's easily attributable to cost-cutting on EAs part. The dungeons themselves were rpetty sweet, but after the first Act, you stopped seeing any new ones.
As for the "equipment" issue, I vastly preferred DA2's inventory over DA1 or something like ME1 where everyone you killed would just have an equipment diarreah and it became extremely tedious to keep track of it all. And as for the "cosplay" issue, they were jsut referring to having mor unique character designs so you could tell with just a glance at the screen who was who. Like Isabella. Her outfit was quite distinct and made it very easy to keep track of her on the battelfield.
As for the decision issue, I can sympathize a bit with them with the difficulty in giving the player too many choices. The third novel deals with the aftermath of the DA2 chantry story, so its easy to see where they're taking that world. If players are given too many choices, it would be hard to guide the story as effectively.
And David Gaider is pretty cool. He signed my books as himself and as Brother Genitivi :)
Im starting to think that all the ME3 rage/updates/tips mail Im sure destructoid's inbox has been filled with for the last month has made their contributors just a wee bit jaded regarding anything bioware. like tristrix said there is nothing to mock here, when there is an elephant in the room you acknowledge it, thats whats happening here.
Dragon Age II wasn't an RPG? Is it still a game?
I don't see the issue with the panel, they weren't touting ancient RPG mechanics, they were responding to user criticism from Dragon Age II, not pretending to offer brand new things that nobody has ever seen before in the genre. Personally, I'm pretty happy that I'll be able to customise my party aesthetically, as it's not really something that BioWare has done much of in their previous games beyond just giving them armour and equipment.
I don't see the issue with the panel, they weren't touting ancient RPG mechanics, they were responding to user criticism from Dragon Age II, not pretending to offer brand new things that nobody has ever seen before in the genre. Personally, I'm pretty happy that I'll be able to customise my party aesthetically, as it's not really something that BioWare has done much of in their previous games beyond just giving them armour and equipment.
What a constructive and informative article that's not at all snarky and juvenile. Way to go, asshat.
"Equipment for followers"
Maybe i'm just spoiled by my shallow, desisionless JRPG's... But isn't that standard?
Oh, and in JRPG's we call them Party Members, and craziest thing of all? The are usually fully playable and matter in the plot!
Maybe i'm just spoiled by my shallow, desisionless JRPG's... But isn't that standard?
Oh, and in JRPG's we call them Party Members, and craziest thing of all? The are usually fully playable and matter in the plot!
Baldur's gate is unplayable now. KOTOR is borderline unplayable I played through it on the lowest difficulty and most people nowadays would not have the patience to play thru it. See TVTropes "Seinfeld is unfunny". I just didnt get the combat in Dragon Age. Bioware always sucked. Mass Effect on the other hand is brillyunt and one of my favourite games ever they make up for Bioware's other lesser games.
Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 are getting the HD treatment as will Planescape: Torment if we're lucky, sad to see Bioware in the state that it is, they make good games for sure but not the great titles they used to. Ho hum.
frankly, bioware is in extremely dubious esteem these days, and it's about time that people start calling them out on it. Not review sites giving bioware's games 10 out of 10 because one of your website's employees is cast as a romantic interest.
I've wasted a 140 dollars and a lot of playtime on two extremely shit games, and them 'admitting their mistakes' doesn't change that. I was in love with the first dragon age and the second killed any and all interest I have in the franchise. there was a time when this company had my faith, but i'm done with them.
I'll take jaded and a fatter wallet over giving a company that has continued to screw fans over day in and day out 'just one more chance.'
I've wasted a 140 dollars and a lot of playtime on two extremely shit games, and them 'admitting their mistakes' doesn't change that. I was in love with the first dragon age and the second killed any and all interest I have in the franchise. there was a time when this company had my faith, but i'm done with them.
I'll take jaded and a fatter wallet over giving a company that has continued to screw fans over day in and day out 'just one more chance.'
Making fun of themselves and being humble is all fun and games and understandable. What's not understandable is how a triple-A RPG developer even finds themselves in a position where they are humble about their failure to adhere to some of the most accepted and desired design conventions.
@Tristrix
I like what they tried to do with DA2, but in execution I feel it kind of fell apart. The recycled areas were annoying, but they could have been forgiven if the story and characters were good. The story had some great ideas and so much potential, but it was too disjointed and the way things progressed both felt natural and unnatural. Also the ending sucked. The characters had that same problem. They were varied and all had good reasons for being with you, but in the end there is virtually no character development to them and the writing on the relationships was not great.
Now where I think the game did good on was combat, the dialog, and character progression. The combat flowed well and felt good, the dialog had it's ups and downs but for the most part it was good, and the leveling system was great.
My opinion is solely based on the base game so it is entirely possible the DLC packs they've released have great stories and characters, I have no idea.
I like what they tried to do with DA2, but in execution I feel it kind of fell apart. The recycled areas were annoying, but they could have been forgiven if the story and characters were good. The story had some great ideas and so much potential, but it was too disjointed and the way things progressed both felt natural and unnatural. Also the ending sucked. The characters had that same problem. They were varied and all had good reasons for being with you, but in the end there is virtually no character development to them and the writing on the relationships was not great.
Now where I think the game did good on was combat, the dialog, and character progression. The combat flowed well and felt good, the dialog had it's ups and downs but for the most part it was good, and the leveling system was great.
My opinion is solely based on the base game so it is entirely possible the DLC packs they've released have great stories and characters, I have no idea.
they released two dlcs too lukewarm reviews, then canceled the rest of it, just like they're certainly going to cancel the rest of mass effect 3s as they move on to the next big thing.
/rant
Reflecting on the issue some more, I understand that RPG's are a problem as a business model. Traditionally RPG's are not for the mainstream audience. However, the more of an audience you have the more money you make, and the more you can fuel the franchise.
This is exactly why Mass Effect lost me - it started as an RPG at heart, but with a number of flaws, and ended up as Gears of War in terms of gameplay more than any traditional RPG. This is all fine, I know a lot of people loved ME2 and ME3 - but I didn't.
These days games use "space-age tech" and I know it's expensive and sometimes considered absolutely dumb to create a game for a tiny audience (relatively) that would absolutely adore the shit out of it. But developers and publishers need to realize that succumbing to this trend is exactly what is hurting them. Don't make a game that everyone in the world will "like", make a game that fans of that type of game will "sacrifice their firstborn" for.
Reflecting on the issue some more, I understand that RPG's are a problem as a business model. Traditionally RPG's are not for the mainstream audience. However, the more of an audience you have the more money you make, and the more you can fuel the franchise.
This is exactly why Mass Effect lost me - it started as an RPG at heart, but with a number of flaws, and ended up as Gears of War in terms of gameplay more than any traditional RPG. This is all fine, I know a lot of people loved ME2 and ME3 - but I didn't.
These days games use "space-age tech" and I know it's expensive and sometimes considered absolutely dumb to create a game for a tiny audience (relatively) that would absolutely adore the shit out of it. But developers and publishers need to realize that succumbing to this trend is exactly what is hurting them. Don't make a game that everyone in the world will "like", make a game that fans of that type of game will "sacrifice their firstborn" for.
The decline of Bioware can be linked directly to the success of Mass Effect 1 & 2. Not that ME is a bad series, but they learned the wrong lessons from its success. Namely, cut out as many "hardcore" RPG features as possible to generate the most cross-over appeal with other genres, like FPS/third person shooters. They aren't making RPGs anymore, they're making shooters and beat-em ups with RPG elements.
@Christ Charter
"I have no idea how a company can go from making one of the most expansive RPGs of all time (Baldur's Gate) to a shell of their former self, into an almost Molyneuxian parody state."
They had a Black Isle-ectomy.
"I have no idea how a company can go from making one of the most expansive RPGs of all time (Baldur's Gate) to a shell of their former self, into an almost Molyneuxian parody state."
They had a Black Isle-ectomy.
I join Tristix and others; I was at that panel and I think your characterization is really unfair. They were trying to let everyone know that they were listening to fan input and were going to make DA3 better. Those were the most requested changes so they focused on them. I thought it was a good panel and have me a lot of hope for the next installment. They were also extremely good natured about all the criticism.
Cosplay indeed does make everything better, C2. That it does.
Oh, and you're ten days too late with this presentation, Bioware.
It was meant to be a joke, right?
Oh, and you're ten days too late with this presentation, Bioware.
It was meant to be a joke, right?
If Bioware wants to return to its former glory, then they should just dump EA and move on. Frankly, I'm done with EA games in general. They went from being normal, to evil, to good, all to just become the most evil company ever.
I think you're missing some of the point of what they were talking about here.
One of the reasons that you couldn't change your party members core armor in DA2 (aside from the various slots for accessories) was so that they could maintain their distinct look/character design, and not have generic armor dilute this. In this presentation, they're saying that if you give a set of armor to a different character, it WILL affect their appearance this time, but also that the appearance will be in some way tailored to that character, so that they don't lose their identity. It's actually a pretty cool idea that's addressing a fairly complex design issue.
This isn't simply a case of "Oh hey, you can give armor to your companions".
One of the reasons that you couldn't change your party members core armor in DA2 (aside from the various slots for accessories) was so that they could maintain their distinct look/character design, and not have generic armor dilute this. In this presentation, they're saying that if you give a set of armor to a different character, it WILL affect their appearance this time, but also that the appearance will be in some way tailored to that character, so that they don't lose their identity. It's actually a pretty cool idea that's addressing a fairly complex design issue.
This isn't simply a case of "Oh hey, you can give armor to your companions".
Bioware have been a joke company since Mass Effect 2.
It's similar to 2004 where console games started to effect the quality of PC games. These grabs for cash like ME2+ are effecting the quality of console games.
It's similar to 2004 where console games started to effect the quality of PC games. These grabs for cash like ME2+ are effecting the quality of console games.
follow
