surf dtoid with 
Rising (10+)
People you follow
It doesn't change the fact that the game is as linear as almost every other JRPG created. I accept Demon souls and a few others as exceptions
@Chronic Logic
In my opinion there is no RPG at all in video game industry. So, what you are talking about is a game which may be called "Third person action". Not "RPG". RPG has different mechanics in itself which are not available in today's technological level.
Sorry guys... to be honest. RPG or JRPG. it doesn't matter. I can clearly say that we can call "Sleep Is Death" Role-playing Game but not Final Fantasy XIII nor Mass Effect today.
In my opinion there is no RPG at all in video game industry. So, what you are talking about is a game which may be called "Third person action". Not "RPG". RPG has different mechanics in itself which are not available in today's technological level.
Sorry guys... to be honest. RPG or JRPG. it doesn't matter. I can clearly say that we can call "Sleep Is Death" Role-playing Game but not Final Fantasy XIII nor Mass Effect today.
#KingSigy,
"Leveling up, to me, is an RPG. "
Modern Warfare 2 is an RPG?
Sorry.. couldn't help myself. I totally disagree with you. Leveling up is a game mechanic.. not a genre.
"Leveling up, to me, is an RPG. "
Modern Warfare 2 is an RPG?
Sorry.. couldn't help myself. I totally disagree with you. Leveling up is a game mechanic.. not a genre.
Oh, the great RPG definition debate, I remeber having this debate with friends back in the Genesis/SNES days.
@CowboyTTop:
You say Square is "cliched", then says they need to have some "consistency". You praise Bioware for "not afraid of change" but complains about Square's "millionth different battle system". Just contradictory or fanboy?
And Bioware, we get it, you don't like FFXIII, don't need to shove your opinions down our throat every chance you get (includes an interview ABOUT The Old Republic, anyone else went WTF on that beside me?). When you new MMO TOR beats WoW in subscribers, I'll start pay attention to your opinion about RPG.
You say Square is "cliched", then says they need to have some "consistency". You praise Bioware for "not afraid of change" but complains about Square's "millionth different battle system". Just contradictory or fanboy?
And Bioware, we get it, you don't like FFXIII, don't need to shove your opinions down our throat every chance you get (includes an interview ABOUT The Old Republic, anyone else went WTF on that beside me?). When you new MMO TOR beats WoW in subscribers, I'll start pay attention to your opinion about RPG.
@ hyurirage,
"When you new MMO TOR beats WoW in subscribers, I'll start pay attention to your opinion about RPG."
Huh, why? Only MMO developers get an opinion on RPG's? I don't get it..
"When you new MMO TOR beats WoW in subscribers, I'll start pay attention to your opinion about RPG."
Huh, why? Only MMO developers get an opinion on RPG's? I don't get it..
@runtheplacered
I didn't mean it in that only MMO developers can have an opinion about RPG's. I meant it as that when they can prove that they know what they're doing, I might give their opinions more worth.
I didn't mean it in that only MMO developers can have an opinion about RPG's. I meant it as that when they can prove that they know what they're doing, I might give their opinions more worth.
Agreed, It's more deserving of a new category.
My submission for the name of the category is Yawnfest.
My submission for the name of the category is Yawnfest.
I hated Mass Effect 2, and I love the Final Fantasy franchise, but ff12 was awful. I have zero interest in 13, after the endless mounds of articles and the fact that my friend stopped playing it.
Thank god gaming isn't my only hobby. Honestly.
Thank god gaming isn't my only hobby. Honestly.
I'm not a big RPG fan so you wont even take my opinion to consideration, but i agree with the Bioware guy.
No, It's a JRPG. Bioware need to get off there high horses. Mass Effect and Dragon age have been terrible disappointments (unless you're like 11 and never played anything bfore NWN1).
Bioware used to be one of my favorite companies. Now they seem to do nothing but make sub-par games and trash talk other developers. Dragon Age was the biggest disappointment of the decade for me, and Mass Effect 2 was good but was basically Gears of War with dialog trees. It contained none of the elements that an RPG usually has. Bioware could have criticized other companies 3 years ago and attempted to define RPG then. Today they have about as much validity of defining what an "RPG" is as Epic Games does.
Additionally, despite the fact that you do influence the story in Dragon Age or Mass Effect, you only do so much. Dragon Age's "freedom" is incredibly limited with only a "light grey" and "dark grey" option for each scenario, with the entire plot rolling out exactly the same regardless of your choices or your selected origin. There are 5 endings, and each one is almost identical. If FFXIII isn't an RPG because you don't "live you character" neither is Dragon Age or Mass Effect (although Mass Effect is more so, by that definition). Basically, by their definition, you have Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout. Those are apparently the only RPGs.
As a third note, to make this a truly gargantuan wall of text, how can you say "D&D guys" and not "story guys"? What does that mean? Have they ever played D&D? People who replay Balder's Gate are "D&D people"? I've never "replayed" a campaign in D&D and I've been playing it for a decade. D&D is all about the story to me. But some of the people I've played with are all about the statistic side of the game or all about optimization, or whatever. It's a very individual game and doesn't really really represent a "type of people", or does it possess a truly identical digital representation. What matters to me, a "D&D person" is creating a unique narrative (something not available in a video game). One of my "D&D people" friends plays D&D so that he has an excuse to build miniature sets and paint tiny figurines. Another likes creating spread sheets that plot out different character archetypes so he can plot out the optimal stat layout. Another just likes trying to disrupt the DM's control over the situation. None of us ever played Balder's Gate a second time.
Additionally, despite the fact that you do influence the story in Dragon Age or Mass Effect, you only do so much. Dragon Age's "freedom" is incredibly limited with only a "light grey" and "dark grey" option for each scenario, with the entire plot rolling out exactly the same regardless of your choices or your selected origin. There are 5 endings, and each one is almost identical. If FFXIII isn't an RPG because you don't "live you character" neither is Dragon Age or Mass Effect (although Mass Effect is more so, by that definition). Basically, by their definition, you have Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout. Those are apparently the only RPGs.
As a third note, to make this a truly gargantuan wall of text, how can you say "D&D guys" and not "story guys"? What does that mean? Have they ever played D&D? People who replay Balder's Gate are "D&D people"? I've never "replayed" a campaign in D&D and I've been playing it for a decade. D&D is all about the story to me. But some of the people I've played with are all about the statistic side of the game or all about optimization, or whatever. It's a very individual game and doesn't really really represent a "type of people", or does it possess a truly identical digital representation. What matters to me, a "D&D person" is creating a unique narrative (something not available in a video game). One of my "D&D people" friends plays D&D so that he has an excuse to build miniature sets and paint tiny figurines. Another likes creating spread sheets that plot out different character archetypes so he can plot out the optimal stat layout. Another just likes trying to disrupt the DM's control over the situation. None of us ever played Balder's Gate a second time.
vampire: the masquerade: bloodlines is more of an rpg then what bioware's cover shooter with dialogue tree could ever hope for
I didnt like ff13 in the end after playing around 40 hours of it but Bioware is so unbelievably married to their precious dialog and they flood their games with so much of that junk and penalizes you for skipping it that I dont understand what it is people can possibly enjoy in these games.
I should point out that based on Bioware's BS definition of an RPG Saint's Row 2 is the ultimate RPG it has the most in depth character creator, you choose the order you do the missions in, which side jobs you do, you have people to call, territory to defend, you definitely live your character they have your personality to a T. You hardly live anything in mass effect you just wheel a generic short brown haired, grizzled space marine from one longwinded dialog to another. Its like gears of war but without anything that made gears fun unique, or enjoyable
I should point out that based on Bioware's BS definition of an RPG Saint's Row 2 is the ultimate RPG it has the most in depth character creator, you choose the order you do the missions in, which side jobs you do, you have people to call, territory to defend, you definitely live your character they have your personality to a T. You hardly live anything in mass effect you just wheel a generic short brown haired, grizzled space marine from one longwinded dialog to another. Its like gears of war but without anything that made gears fun unique, or enjoyable
@ mattrodroid
It's not just about creating a character, it's about making the decisions that you feel that character would make. You know, playing a role.
Somebody who rolled a necromancer with few qualms about who they raise and why should reanimate the bones of Gary Gygax so he can set everybody straight.
It's not just about creating a character, it's about making the decisions that you feel that character would make. You know, playing a role.
Somebody who rolled a necromancer with few qualms about who they raise and why should reanimate the bones of Gary Gygax so he can set everybody straight.
@Patriot Snake
Thanks, that 100% proves my point. D&D players are entirely unique and don't represent a certain "type" of person. You play D&D and you played the hell out of Balder's Gate. I'm a sanctioned RPGA DM and I haven't. We probably don't play D&D exactly the same way, because very few people actually do. "D&D guy" isn't a type of guy, and you being different from me or my friends prove that to a T, and further disproves Bioware's argument.
Thanks, that 100% proves my point. D&D players are entirely unique and don't represent a certain "type" of person. You play D&D and you played the hell out of Balder's Gate. I'm a sanctioned RPGA DM and I haven't. We probably don't play D&D exactly the same way, because very few people actually do. "D&D guy" isn't a type of guy, and you being different from me or my friends prove that to a T, and further disproves Bioware's argument.
@ Patriot Snake - Don't act like you've never called a Final Fantasy game an RPG.
RPG is just the name of the genre. Can you really call Puzzle Fighter a puzzle game? It's a game where you interpret the symbols and place them. It's not like you're SOLVING anything.
Even still, I don't think there's any point debating exactly what an RPG is for two reasons. One, it's just a genre to lump games in. Two, the main reason Bioware made that statement is because they just needed an excuse to shit on their only real competitor and pretend their games are supremely and ultimately better.
RPG is just the name of the genre. Can you really call Puzzle Fighter a puzzle game? It's a game where you interpret the symbols and place them. It's not like you're SOLVING anything.
Even still, I don't think there's any point debating exactly what an RPG is for two reasons. One, it's just a genre to lump games in. Two, the main reason Bioware made that statement is because they just needed an excuse to shit on their only real competitor and pretend their games are supremely and ultimately better.
@ Electrium
It's only a genre to lump games in because people started lumping games into it. It was what the guy from Bioware is saying it is long before videogames started calling themselves "RPGs". The reasons why JRPGs are called RPGs, the experience points, stats, and leveling up, are not what makes an RPG an RPG. Those things only serve to facilitate the playing of roles in a story that changes based on the actions of those playing it, and as such are not required in an RPG.
It's only a genre to lump games in because people started lumping games into it. It was what the guy from Bioware is saying it is long before videogames started calling themselves "RPGs". The reasons why JRPGs are called RPGs, the experience points, stats, and leveling up, are not what makes an RPG an RPG. Those things only serve to facilitate the playing of roles in a story that changes based on the actions of those playing it, and as such are not required in an RPG.
@EggmaniMN
"A role playing game is a game that uses the basis of D&D style role playing, that is, stats, HP/MP, battle systems, skill systems. That's it. That's all it is."
That's like saying Yahtzee is a tabletop RPG because you roll dice.
"A role playing game is a game that uses the basis of D&D style role playing, that is, stats, HP/MP, battle systems, skill systems. That's it. That's all it is."
That's like saying Yahtzee is a tabletop RPG because you roll dice.
Uh huh. Less commenting on other developer's titles and more fixing all the broken-ass shit in Dragon Age, please.
so by his definition, ufc 2009 is an rpg.. you start with a customizable character, level up, decide which attributes you want.. i mean seriously.. this is stupid.
the opinion of one guy who works at bioware does not equal the opinion of bioware. maybe if it were the respectable doctors that said this, then maybe your headline would be acceptable, but not some random lead writer.
seriously, jim. journalism.
seriously, jim. journalism.
What's going on is that developers can cherry pick the rpg elements they want and include them in a game. Some gamers have what they think a rpg is set in their mind, from D&D etc, thing is, D&D as good as it was in its own right, was niche for a reason (very deep well with many options, possibly too much for casual entry). Gamers by and large do not have that kind of time to devote to a game so deeply. This is also the reason why some huge epic rpgs entrenched in D&D stylings like Oblivion never became huge sellers like Mass Effect, Bioshock, as they are too hardcore.
@hyryuiage
On the contrary, I used to be a huge Square fan from back on SNES. Their games aren't what they once were. FF has gone downhill and other games in their stable are forgotten altogether. I'm also a big anime and manga fan too, so the tropes I mention, also drown me with them too, which makes me very choosy. This makes any jrpg a hell for me. Last FF game I got was FFIX.
Call me what you like, but as a 32 year old gamer, I can only play games with whiny ass andro teen squad, so much (exceptions for some, Persona 3 etc). I'm mostly burnt out on them and the likes of Mass Effect, Fall Out 3 etc offer me a mature alternative. Not going to feel guilty for that. I'll come back when you can make an rpg without kids in it, Square.
Next game that looks sweet that's an RPG is Alpha Protocol, which I'll be checking out. Doesn't mean its not an rpg because it uses guns instead of swords and magic, and it doesn't have to be as deep as D&D or as shallow as FF to please. If the core gameplay is good and fun, I'll be there.
@hyryuiage
On the contrary, I used to be a huge Square fan from back on SNES. Their games aren't what they once were. FF has gone downhill and other games in their stable are forgotten altogether. I'm also a big anime and manga fan too, so the tropes I mention, also drown me with them too, which makes me very choosy. This makes any jrpg a hell for me. Last FF game I got was FFIX.
Call me what you like, but as a 32 year old gamer, I can only play games with whiny ass andro teen squad, so much (exceptions for some, Persona 3 etc). I'm mostly burnt out on them and the likes of Mass Effect, Fall Out 3 etc offer me a mature alternative. Not going to feel guilty for that. I'll come back when you can make an rpg without kids in it, Square.
Next game that looks sweet that's an RPG is Alpha Protocol, which I'll be checking out. Doesn't mean its not an rpg because it uses guns instead of swords and magic, and it doesn't have to be as deep as D&D or as shallow as FF to please. If the core gameplay is good and fun, I'll be there.
ME2 wasn't really an rpg...but it was a much better written, enjoyable game, with characters that are actually interesting and a story that kept me interested. FF12 gave me hope that the series was actually going to finally do something different, but 13 destroyed all that goodwill.
I think the problem both a lot of JRPGs and a lot of WRPGs can have is that they both wind up trampling on the imagination of the player. The first Final Fantasy didn't have a narrative at all. It had a story, but the developers didn't force a narrative on the player. The player's party had no preset name. In fact, the player could model the party after himself and his friends if he wanted. In this way the player was no longer simply playing a game but was having an adventure with his friends, and building up his own narrative in his mind. There's some modern-day equivalents of games like this, such as WoW, and on a smaller scale games like Etrian Odyssey and Class of Heroes.
All subsequent Final Fantasy games have trampled on this by forcing in a narrative and butting the player's imagination out, and there's been a gradual backlash from gamers over this.
Not that I'm putting Bioware on a pedastal. They sorta do the same thing as Square Enix has with intruding a narrative into the game. Sure, the main character might be set up to be "you", but the rest of your party and characters, even with all of their "choices", are still set up in a way that tramples on the imagination of the player.
I could probably go on, but I don't have the time right now.
All subsequent Final Fantasy games have trampled on this by forcing in a narrative and butting the player's imagination out, and there's been a gradual backlash from gamers over this.
Not that I'm putting Bioware on a pedastal. They sorta do the same thing as Square Enix has with intruding a narrative into the game. Sure, the main character might be set up to be "you", but the rest of your party and characters, even with all of their "choices", are still set up in a way that tramples on the imagination of the player.
I could probably go on, but I don't have the time right now.
Man, everyone reacts to these controversial statements, but never really read the actual explanation provided. I for one look forward to these statements, as I find that Bioware rarely has a dumb reason for saying as such. They always provided a logical and explanative reason for the statemnts they offer. Like this, it is true that JRPGs are in fact, not RPGs. They bring up many good points in their arguments.
Oh look, it's this argument again.
JRPGs are NOT RPGs. Period. However, we had no word to describe this somewhat massive genre of game, so, surprise surprise, we use the term JRPG to classify it. It's like a catfish, no one's should be surprised by pointing out that it's not really a cat, but just a label of something it borrows a few similarities from.
JRPGs are NOT RPGs. Period. However, we had no word to describe this somewhat massive genre of game, so, surprise surprise, we use the term JRPG to classify it. It's like a catfish, no one's should be surprised by pointing out that it's not really a cat, but just a label of something it borrows a few similarities from.
@az060693
My problem is that they're the pot calling the kettle black. They've defined "RPG" in a way that makes none of their games RPGs either. And they act like an authority, which they are not. It's asinine.
Wizardry, Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Shin Megami Tensei, none of these are considered RPGs by Bioware's definition, but they have been called RPGs for more 20 years. You can't make a few hit games then decide that 20 years of RPGs need to be called something else. Any statistic based, story driven game, "JRPG" or "WRPG" (I hate those terms) or not is an RPG because they've been called that for two decades. It may be a corruption of the original definition of the term, but many English words now have corrupted meanings, and few genre descriptions are all that accurate. As someone else mentioned what are you actually solving in "puzzle games"? Is condemned really an FPS, since most of the game you're not shooting anything?
@Vanor
I agree with you completely. Bioware does the same narrative forcing as square, they just dress it differently. The player's imagination in a video game is used much like a viewer's when they're watching a movie. I don't feel like the backlash is actually from players over "imagination" being forced out as much as it is from the game holding your hand and players viewing that as the game playing itself.
My problem is that they're the pot calling the kettle black. They've defined "RPG" in a way that makes none of their games RPGs either. And they act like an authority, which they are not. It's asinine.
Wizardry, Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Shin Megami Tensei, none of these are considered RPGs by Bioware's definition, but they have been called RPGs for more 20 years. You can't make a few hit games then decide that 20 years of RPGs need to be called something else. Any statistic based, story driven game, "JRPG" or "WRPG" (I hate those terms) or not is an RPG because they've been called that for two decades. It may be a corruption of the original definition of the term, but many English words now have corrupted meanings, and few genre descriptions are all that accurate. As someone else mentioned what are you actually solving in "puzzle games"? Is condemned really an FPS, since most of the game you're not shooting anything?
@Vanor
I agree with you completely. Bioware does the same narrative forcing as square, they just dress it differently. The player's imagination in a video game is used much like a viewer's when they're watching a movie. I don't feel like the backlash is actually from players over "imagination" being forced out as much as it is from the game holding your hand and players viewing that as the game playing itself.
@EggmaniMN
The systems and mechanics are there to add structure and allow for fair play, but they are not the game itself, nor what defines it. In fact, things such as stats and skills are not required at all. The game comes from acting as your character and having the things you do and the decisions you make influence the story and the world that it's set in. Look at the first two words in RPG: role playing. As in you play a role, you become a character, and act as they would. It is this, not stats or experience or leveling up, that defines the genre and what makes it unique.
The systems and mechanics are there to add structure and allow for fair play, but they are not the game itself, nor what defines it. In fact, things such as stats and skills are not required at all. The game comes from acting as your character and having the things you do and the decisions you make influence the story and the world that it's set in. Look at the first two words in RPG: role playing. As in you play a role, you become a character, and act as they would. It is this, not stats or experience or leveling up, that defines the genre and what makes it unique.
To paraphrase - 'leveling up and stories' Vs. 'choice and open worlds'.
That is a skillfully succinct analysis of an RPG's main metrics.
I would add that RPG's can contain differing mixtures of these 4 measurement criteria. It could contain all of them for example.
One of my favorite parts of Fallout 3 was that stuff wore out, could be combined and repaired. Which contributed to leveling up your character. Oddly though this maintenance is not normally considered leveling.
This maintenance expense is like the leveling up in Shogun-Total War. You can combine expenses and turn a tower into a fort, into a fortress and so on. But the taxes required for these expenses sometimes require you to station soldiers & police in your own territories if you want to raise taxes to starvation levels without peasant revolt.
I enjoy the push back these games have against your intentions.
Any Jimpressions?
That is a skillfully succinct analysis of an RPG's main metrics.
I would add that RPG's can contain differing mixtures of these 4 measurement criteria. It could contain all of them for example.
One of my favorite parts of Fallout 3 was that stuff wore out, could be combined and repaired. Which contributed to leveling up your character. Oddly though this maintenance is not normally considered leveling.
This maintenance expense is like the leveling up in Shogun-Total War. You can combine expenses and turn a tower into a fort, into a fortress and so on. But the taxes required for these expenses sometimes require you to station soldiers & police in your own territories if you want to raise taxes to starvation levels without peasant revolt.
I enjoy the push back these games have against your intentions.
Any Jimpressions?
I like Bioware games, but those guys spend way too much time talking trash about other people's games.
@The Passenger
The video game version of RPG was named as such because it possessed the same mechanical structure as the tabletop RPG. There are currently no games on the market that offer the ability to truly act like your character or truly influence the world. You can basically just twist the dialog or influence things to get one of a couple different endings.
An alternate take on the situation is that ALL games are RPGs because you "play" the "role" of protagonist and the stories are interactive.
The video game version of RPG was named as such because it possessed the same mechanical structure as the tabletop RPG. There are currently no games on the market that offer the ability to truly act like your character or truly influence the world. You can basically just twist the dialog or influence things to get one of a couple different endings.
An alternate take on the situation is that ALL games are RPGs because you "play" the "role" of protagonist and the stories are interactive.
@dj-anon
Oh, I am most certainly all for people to express their opinions, my major point was that software houses and publishers have been a little bit too vocal concerning each others products, a practise most would believe to be above them. Ss obviously, there is not need for me to be chanting "la la la" just yet...
Oh, I am most certainly all for people to express their opinions, my major point was that software houses and publishers have been a little bit too vocal concerning each others products, a practise most would believe to be above them. Ss obviously, there is not need for me to be chanting "la la la" just yet...
OK, I need to get this off my chest.
First off, I want to say that some proper context is necessary- Daniel Erickson DID NOT just go out and say "Oh, Bioware hates Final Fantasy XIII". He was asked, by Strategy Informer, about his thoughts on Final Fantasy's linear storyline. He also DID NOT outright say that Final Fantasy XIII is a bad game- he said it isn't an RPG. Really, this story is incredibly deceptive in it's wording and seems to have been written just to create controversy in the comments section.
Secondly, I find it interesting that all these people are getting seriously angry over one man's opinion. It's not Bioware's opinion, Daniel Erickson is not Bioware. It was an minor remark made in an interview. And yet all these people get enraged because someone disagrees with them. Who cares? It's not his job to say what he thinks of other games, and he didn't do anything that may be considered unethical (unless you consider possibly disliking Final Fantasy to be unethical). It's not even really that important of a subject. But I suppose it's to be expected, considering the maturity of people on the internet.
I was probably a little overly harsh there, so I do apologize in advance.
First off, I want to say that some proper context is necessary- Daniel Erickson DID NOT just go out and say "Oh, Bioware hates Final Fantasy XIII". He was asked, by Strategy Informer, about his thoughts on Final Fantasy's linear storyline. He also DID NOT outright say that Final Fantasy XIII is a bad game- he said it isn't an RPG. Really, this story is incredibly deceptive in it's wording and seems to have been written just to create controversy in the comments section.
Secondly, I find it interesting that all these people are getting seriously angry over one man's opinion. It's not Bioware's opinion, Daniel Erickson is not Bioware. It was an minor remark made in an interview. And yet all these people get enraged because someone disagrees with them. Who cares? It's not his job to say what he thinks of other games, and he didn't do anything that may be considered unethical (unless you consider possibly disliking Final Fantasy to be unethical). It's not even really that important of a subject. But I suppose it's to be expected, considering the maturity of people on the internet.
I was probably a little overly harsh there, so I do apologize in advance.
all there actually saying is that you don't realy play the roll of a character in jrpgs and are not really rpgs this is kind of trough but still they can be great games
I'm not really concerned with which genre is better. I'm more concerned with developers abusing the same old genres. I have 105 console games so far this generation. 19 are shooters, 21 are rpgs, and mostly everything else has been lumped in the action-adventure genre. However, almost all of these action-adventure games are still, at there core, either third person shooter or hack-n-slash. Are there really no other concepts to be discovered? It's hard to judge, as I myself can't think of any (well, maybe Portal or Mirror's Edge?). Genres hardly help thinking outside the box! Eh, maybe I'm asking for too much... 0_o;
Says the company that dumbed down Mass Effect into the shitty action shooter that was Mass Effect 2. The most disappointing game I've ever played.
this guy =readbigwordsisgood= had a great point and i just might wanna add something...there rly is no point in pondering over the exact definition of RPG because...
1.u get to call RPG and get and RPG feel from whatever u like (u know, from something that can even have on of the four elements that are in any RPG game leveling up or strong RPG characteristic story or choice to act or open worlds where u can do the previuos)
2.if we HAVE to distinguish JRPG and WRPG i think the main stuff revolves around JRPGs leveling up+story and WRPGs choice+open worlds where u have to make a choice which suits u better as an RPG
3.I dont agree with that Bioware guy cause however shitty FF XIII was, it was still an RPG...a JRPG altogether...but still an RPG and if this guy wants to bash on something so basic in RPG as FF maybe he should move onto action-adventure or driving...because lets face it...bioware isnt perfect, just as SE in last years got its hit and miss in RPGs so did Bioware and for every biowares good RPG there is a counterpart from older SE games id pick as eagerly as theirs(the choice in biowares rpg is nice and interesting but its just as nice and interesting as the older captivating stories in FFs and obviously SE cant compete in variety just as bioware cannot compete in such story writing)
...i mean whats the point in exact definition? when obviously there are so many variables to consider in defining an RPG and especially when everybody likes some different RPG element in every single game!!!
(just to make an example and so at least some get the picture im trying to say from my experience...i simply hate dragon age=its just a newer version of drakan the ancient gates and i hate FF12 and FF13 because of its linearity and weak story and no main characters...although ive been a huge fan of Kotor and FF1-9 at the same time...i just love Fallout and i just love FF8+9...i love preset characters that play a roles in a strong story because i can relate to the main character and get to know the personalities traveling with me=like meeting new people especially when the story is breathtaking where u are just fed the epicness all the time...and i love making a new character with deep customization options so i can make my own story and play the game as i want with possibilities to explore while trying to find my way in the story...but none of those likings have been fulfilled entirely cause of
-technical limitations
-because a game with strong epic story with preset characters (preset in personality and a deep ability tree that can be explored but u still have to make choices) and u can make choices which unbelievable twist will take u to a love romance a or a deep political conspiracy while getting scared and battleworn which u can actually see, with rich side-missions from others genres /side-stories and online components and DLCs completing the unfinished twist or chapters or character history would make the development team dead beacause of 50 years of development and anyone who would survive would be the king of the world...simple... :)
1.u get to call RPG and get and RPG feel from whatever u like (u know, from something that can even have on of the four elements that are in any RPG game leveling up or strong RPG characteristic story or choice to act or open worlds where u can do the previuos)
2.if we HAVE to distinguish JRPG and WRPG i think the main stuff revolves around JRPGs leveling up+story and WRPGs choice+open worlds where u have to make a choice which suits u better as an RPG
3.I dont agree with that Bioware guy cause however shitty FF XIII was, it was still an RPG...a JRPG altogether...but still an RPG and if this guy wants to bash on something so basic in RPG as FF maybe he should move onto action-adventure or driving...because lets face it...bioware isnt perfect, just as SE in last years got its hit and miss in RPGs so did Bioware and for every biowares good RPG there is a counterpart from older SE games id pick as eagerly as theirs(the choice in biowares rpg is nice and interesting but its just as nice and interesting as the older captivating stories in FFs and obviously SE cant compete in variety just as bioware cannot compete in such story writing)
...i mean whats the point in exact definition? when obviously there are so many variables to consider in defining an RPG and especially when everybody likes some different RPG element in every single game!!!
(just to make an example and so at least some get the picture im trying to say from my experience...i simply hate dragon age=its just a newer version of drakan the ancient gates and i hate FF12 and FF13 because of its linearity and weak story and no main characters...although ive been a huge fan of Kotor and FF1-9 at the same time...i just love Fallout and i just love FF8+9...i love preset characters that play a roles in a strong story because i can relate to the main character and get to know the personalities traveling with me=like meeting new people especially when the story is breathtaking where u are just fed the epicness all the time...and i love making a new character with deep customization options so i can make my own story and play the game as i want with possibilities to explore while trying to find my way in the story...but none of those likings have been fulfilled entirely cause of
-technical limitations
-because a game with strong epic story with preset characters (preset in personality and a deep ability tree that can be explored but u still have to make choices) and u can make choices which unbelievable twist will take u to a love romance a or a deep political conspiracy while getting scared and battleworn which u can actually see, with rich side-missions from others genres /side-stories and online components and DLCs completing the unfinished twist or chapters or character history would make the development team dead beacause of 50 years of development and anyone who would survive would be the king of the world...simple... :)
It was more along the lines of an Action RPG, or more or less an RPG with alot of action elements to it.
Why even talk about it? It's not like "OH NOES I PROMISED MY MAMA I WONT PLAY RPGS AN I PLAY DIS GAEM AN IZ RPG! OH WAIT IZ NOT RPG AT ALL BIOWARE SEZ CARRY ON". If people like the game, JRPG or WRPG or Sushi-Making-Simulator, they will play it.
i agree with you jim, but i think maybe bioware are the ones who dont make rpgs. i would say jrpg have you actually play a role, the way role is meant in things like film and theater and such.
i love wrpgs, and dont care for jrpgs, but i would say wrpgs are more like a role creating game, because you create the role you inhabit in your game. you choose your class, your abilities, and your actions. i think calling that role creating is far more accurate than role playing. so i would say wrpgs should be reclassified as rcg.
not that any of things matters, because my words wont change anything, but them is my .02
i love wrpgs, and dont care for jrpgs, but i would say wrpgs are more like a role creating game, because you create the role you inhabit in your game. you choose your class, your abilities, and your actions. i think calling that role creating is far more accurate than role playing. so i would say wrpgs should be reclassified as rcg.
not that any of things matters, because my words wont change anything, but them is my .02
and i dont think the bioware guy said ff sucks, or that he didnt like it, he just said it isnt an rpg. thats not trash talk. its unnecessary quibbling over a definition, however
Eh, Bioware can say whatever they want, won't make the stories in their games any better. Other than ME and ME2, no Bioware game has ever had a story that truly spoke to me on an emotional level. Similarly, other than ME and ME2, no Bioware game has ever created a character I truly cared about. Hell, if it weren't for ME and ME2, I would've completely written off Bioware as yet another shitty WRPG developer.
Ah well, different strokes for different folks. I enjoy both kinds of RPGs, they have different appeals. I'll play ME2 when I want to play in what's esentially an ode to the classical Sci-fi genre. If I want to play a game with a compelling story and interesting characters, I'll break out a JRPG like Persona 4 or Valkyria Chronicles.
Ah well, different strokes for different folks. I enjoy both kinds of RPGs, they have different appeals. I'll play ME2 when I want to play in what's esentially an ode to the classical Sci-fi genre. If I want to play a game with a compelling story and interesting characters, I'll break out a JRPG like Persona 4 or Valkyria Chronicles.
follow
