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Considering how many times I heard the word "fuck" while playing ME2, that seems like a bullshit answer. Then again, that would explain the non-nudity.
To sum up everything that's been said on every forum I've seen this on:
BioWare give a non-answer and lose respect.
BioWare give a non-answer and lose respect.
Seems that they're saying that some people dont like it and they're not gonna buck the trend. Given how much of a big deal just having a sex-scene was in the first game, I think I can see where they're coming from, but that doesnt really make it less of a disappointing answer.
I don't think this necessarily compromises choice in the game. Commander Shepherd, although a personalized character, was designed with some very specific character traits and a very deliberate personality. If that means the character is meant to be straight, I don't see what the problem with that is.
It'd be real easy to rant about the hypocrisy of Shepard being cock blocked into firm handshakes and overlong glances in the locker room, but instead I'll just say this is, like ajaxender said, a disappointment.
Bioware folks are feminists, they love interspecies carpet munching and scissoring, but gag at the sight of two sausages in the same bun.
Also, are we forgetting that Bioware is promoting bestiality with aliens? That's pretty progressive.
Also, are we forgetting that Bioware is promoting bestiality with aliens? That's pretty progressive.
Playing as a male,i think Thane would have been up for it,and maybe Jacob.
Garrus i dont think would be up for man love,he seems all about the ladies.
Garrus i dont think would be up for man love,he seems all about the ladies.
I guess no one seems to remember that the Asari are distinctly feminine, but NOT female. They are what Bioware describes as "mono-gender". Some of you whiners will probably call that a cop-out, but the fact still remains, in the Mass Effect universe, a female human and Asari having sexual contact is not "lesbian sex".
I really don't see why people are making such a big deal about this. It's as dumb as the "OMG THEY HAVE BLACK ZOMBIES IN RE 5..CAPCOM ARE T3H RACISTS!!!"
I'm all for equal rights, but seriously, it's their game; they can include or exclude whatever they want. Having faux-lesbian sex in a game does not mandate that they also HAVE to include dude love. People need to chill out.
I'm all for equal rights, but seriously, it's their game; they can include or exclude whatever they want. Having faux-lesbian sex in a game does not mandate that they also HAVE to include dude love. People need to chill out.
I know that gay people play videogames, but not even that demographic within a demographic is getting anything *close* to a 1:1 ratio on positive represenations of gay characters. Hell, I know that whites typically have more disposible income in this country, but this problem applies itself to the misrepresented nonwhites among us as well. It's like a bunch of WASPs making a lot of our videogames don't even consult with others to make sure that they aren't making some ridiculously insulated vision of their worlds, worlds that have a hundred different aliens species beyond imagination and yet only have exactly one kind of human, "Whitey McHet".
As said above, I see Bioware's point but it is rather disappointing.
I wanted my Shepard and Garrus to move into together and run a bed & breakfast somewhere quiet, with an herb garden. It would've be a quiet life of love and dignity.
Seriously, that would some awesome DLC.
I wanted my Shepard and Garrus to move into together and run a bed & breakfast somewhere quiet, with an herb garden. It would've be a quiet life of love and dignity.
Seriously, that would some awesome DLC.
"Some of you whiners will probably call that a cop-out"
Cause that's what the hell it is. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck... There was nothing story wise stopping the Asari from appearing male, only a greater public stigma against male homosexuality.
Cause that's what the hell it is. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck... There was nothing story wise stopping the Asari from appearing male, only a greater public stigma against male homosexuality.
So what? I mean, yes it's true that they are basically contradicting themselves in the same interview. But it's kind of a safe contradiction and I'm not against it. I have nothing against gay people, but it's not because it exists that you absolutely need it as a feature in the game.
What did you want them to say?? "Oh yeah here at Bioware, on our priority list, we have in order of importance, the story, gay stuff, gameplay innovations, graphics....."
And when asked by a gaming journalist the famous question about what they think gaming will look like in the future: "Gay MMOs of course, and Homosexual Warfare 6...."
Once again, I have nothing against gays, but Bioware played it safe and they were right.
Still doesn't explain why there IS gay sex in Dragon Age though... confused...
What did you want them to say?? "Oh yeah here at Bioware, on our priority list, we have in order of importance, the story, gay stuff, gameplay innovations, graphics....."
And when asked by a gaming journalist the famous question about what they think gaming will look like in the future: "Gay MMOs of course, and Homosexual Warfare 6...."
Once again, I have nothing against gays, but Bioware played it safe and they were right.
Still doesn't explain why there IS gay sex in Dragon Age though... confused...
Shepard just needs to find an asari team member with a crazy birth defect that gives it a male appearance instead of female. Then their relationship is sorta gay in the same way Liara's relationship is sorta lesbian. Also Kelly could be replaced with a dude...
God I wish Kelly had her own scene. :(
God I wish Kelly had her own scene. :(
The love scenes in Mass Effect 2 were awful. Not as bad as those in Dragon Age, but still cringe-worthy.
Also, I think Bioware got kind of screwed with this question. The radial dialogue menu in Bioware's head probably had three options. The top option said "Mass Effect 3 maybe?" The bottom was "Because gays suck balls lololol", and they chose the middle.
Bullshit. Nothing else to it.
If there is a good argument for the exclusion of gay sex he certainly didn't bring it.
I think those who say people who want to know why it's not included are whiners completely miss the point. The point is less so a call for a reason to include it as much as it is a call for a solid reason to not include it.
And no "It's their game," and "Just because lesbians are in doesn't mean gays have to be in," are not good reasons. They're excuses.
If there is a good argument for the exclusion of gay sex he certainly didn't bring it.
I think those who say people who want to know why it's not included are whiners completely miss the point. The point is less so a call for a reason to include it as much as it is a call for a solid reason to not include it.
And no "It's their game," and "Just because lesbians are in doesn't mean gays have to be in," are not good reasons. They're excuses.
@Xzyliac
Seriously? So what, now every game has to have gay sex in it? Of course those are valid reasons. Why didn't they let you rape little kids in Mass Effect? I mean, hey, maybe priests and pedophiles are offended that they didn't include that.
The point is, they didn't include it and they don't need a reason. Nintendo has never given us a reason why Mario can't bang Luigi in any of the SMB games. I think Bolduk made the most sensible response so far: just because something exists doesn't mean you have to include it in the game. And if people are seriously saying Bioware is a studio of homophobes, play fucking Dragon Age!
People who are offended by this need to grow up.
Seriously? So what, now every game has to have gay sex in it? Of course those are valid reasons. Why didn't they let you rape little kids in Mass Effect? I mean, hey, maybe priests and pedophiles are offended that they didn't include that.
The point is, they didn't include it and they don't need a reason. Nintendo has never given us a reason why Mario can't bang Luigi in any of the SMB games. I think Bolduk made the most sensible response so far: just because something exists doesn't mean you have to include it in the game. And if people are seriously saying Bioware is a studio of homophobes, play fucking Dragon Age!
People who are offended by this need to grow up.
The problem isn't that people are offended. The problem is many-limbed.
1) Sound files exist for the homosexual romances. It wouldn't take them long to implement them fully.
2) Some remnants exist in-game (see Tali talking to FemShep in ME2)
3) ManShep has been sidelined; FemShep got Kelly and Liara as "homosexual romances".
4) Mass Effect 1 + 2 are 2 of the very few BioWare games without homosexual romances; it's become almost their signature.
There's probably a few other reasons around.
1) Sound files exist for the homosexual romances. It wouldn't take them long to implement them fully.
2) Some remnants exist in-game (see Tali talking to FemShep in ME2)
3) ManShep has been sidelined; FemShep got Kelly and Liara as "homosexual romances".
4) Mass Effect 1 + 2 are 2 of the very few BioWare games without homosexual romances; it's become almost their signature.
There's probably a few other reasons around.
@Rhuno
No, but it is an odd omission in a role playing game that emphasizes players having authority in the multiple choices characters make.
But I don't have a beef whether it is or isn't in a game so much as Bioware's honestly. It's that I don't care for the PR bullshit,I want a fully truthful answer when a question is asked. They could just say gay relationships are too much of a politically hot topic and they decided to omit them to protect their sales. Simple. No need to beat around the bush.
No, but it is an odd omission in a role playing game that emphasizes players having authority in the multiple choices characters make.
But I don't have a beef whether it is or isn't in a game so much as Bioware's honestly. It's that I don't care for the PR bullshit,I want a fully truthful answer when a question is asked. They could just say gay relationships are too much of a politically hot topic and they decided to omit them to protect their sales. Simple. No need to beat around the bush.
shepard can't bone dudes because he'd lose his job as a Spectre/Ceberus agent, just like he would in 29 states of the USA.
@Rhuno
There are reasons those (ridiculous) examples you have don't exist. There are moral reasons, logical reasons, and straight up marketing reasons (I doubt a game with rape would bold well with the public).
Even if there reason is just "We just didn't want to," at least that's an honest answer. Don't bullshit me with "Oh we wanted a PG-13 expeience." They could outright say they hated gays for all I care as long as it was a reason.
Again, I'm not saying it should be included, I'm not offended either. I just want to know why.
I'm sorry you think everyone who is curious is a hyperbolic pussy who gets offended at the drop of a pin. Some of just wanna.
Especially, mind you, that gay relationships were originally in the game and then cut out.
There are reasons those (ridiculous) examples you have don't exist. There are moral reasons, logical reasons, and straight up marketing reasons (I doubt a game with rape would bold well with the public).
Even if there reason is just "We just didn't want to," at least that's an honest answer. Don't bullshit me with "Oh we wanted a PG-13 expeience." They could outright say they hated gays for all I care as long as it was a reason.
Again, I'm not saying it should be included, I'm not offended either. I just want to know why.
I'm sorry you think everyone who is curious is a hyperbolic pussy who gets offended at the drop of a pin. Some of just wanna.
Especially, mind you, that gay relationships were originally in the game and then cut out.
I'm all for equality, but the gay rights movement is going a bit too far. They need to stop demanding that everything with sex, have gay sex too. That's unrealistic and a tad selfish, you're essentially asking the writers of the game to say 'to hell with the story and what we're making.' The people making the game have a story to tell, they have every right not to include gay sex if they don't want to. That's not being 'ignorant' or 'discriminatory' it's just how they choose to tell the story. It's too the point now where everything involving sex has to show the opposite spectrum as well. It's been brought up with games, movies, TV shoes, even god damned commercials and advertisements. It's not your place to tell the developers of an idea how to create it, it's not even your right. We have freedom of expression in this country, that's what allows you to express homosexuality, and what allows others to choose not to. Are we really at the point where everything will be attacked for lack of gay sex?
@Renegade: Whoa, when did the gay rights movement come into this? I can't find any particular gay rights advocacy group bitching about the article other than the Dtoiders.
The gay rights movement doesn't demand that everything with sex have gay sex in it too. No one is asking the creators of Mass Effect 2 to scrap their story in favor or a homosexual agenda. People are just asking why it wasn't included.
The gay rights movement doesn't demand that everything with sex have gay sex in it too. No one is asking the creators of Mass Effect 2 to scrap their story in favor or a homosexual agenda. People are just asking why it wasn't included.
@chinesedogmeat - who said "The PC Brigade can't let a game just be a fun experience the creator wants the end user to have"
Honestly, political correctness has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. If anything the 'PC brigade' would want a more inclusive attitude which allowed anyone to express their sexual preference without fear of attack from small minded bigots like yourself.
Honestly, political correctness has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. If anything the 'PC brigade' would want a more inclusive attitude which allowed anyone to express their sexual preference without fear of attack from small minded bigots like yourself.
@ RenegadePanda
Hear, hear! Excellent post.
This idea that every piece of media needs a gay character, a minority character and an interracial couple annoys me to no end. True equality means having these things in media when they should be, when it makes sense, not forcing them in to make people happy or feel like they are so cool and modern and PC.
I'm a Doctor Who fan and during the new series from 2005 on with producer Russell T. Davies 90% of couples on that show are interracial. That is not an overestimate, someone calculated it, and just watching the show you will notice it. Stands out like a sore thumb and takes you right out of the episode.
Hear, hear! Excellent post.
This idea that every piece of media needs a gay character, a minority character and an interracial couple annoys me to no end. True equality means having these things in media when they should be, when it makes sense, not forcing them in to make people happy or feel like they are so cool and modern and PC.
I'm a Doctor Who fan and during the new series from 2005 on with producer Russell T. Davies 90% of couples on that show are interracial. That is not an overestimate, someone calculated it, and just watching the show you will notice it. Stands out like a sore thumb and takes you right out of the episode.
@Renegade
As Xzyliac said. A lot of us aren't disputing that they have the right to to make a story how they like. It's simply that if they are going to bother to answer a question, answer it honestly without tiptoeing around it. Better to just say 'no comment' in that case.
As Xzyliac said. A lot of us aren't disputing that they have the right to to make a story how they like. It's simply that if they are going to bother to answer a question, answer it honestly without tiptoeing around it. Better to just say 'no comment' in that case.
@RenegadePanda
Which is a completely valid point, one that I agree with, however when confronted with a question such as "Why imply lesbianism and not gaiety," I'd like an honest answer. Not PR bullshit.
I'd rather for Bioware to say exactly what you've just said to my face then to beat around the bush.
And there is a basis inthat question beyond simply "showing the opposite spectrum." There was lesbianism. So regardless of your opinion it's a valid question to ask why, in a game of options extending as far as lesbianism stop at gaiety.
It's a completely legit question that should be given a legit answer as all legit questions should. While no answer will put to rest the debate it's bullshit answer like the above that only fuel flames. It doesn't make any sense. Give the honest answer. Why cut out the originally planned content? Why stop at lesbianism? Why feature it in one game and not the other?
I mean these are valid questions that shouldn't have to be satisfied with theories and excuses created by spectators. The honest truth should come out of the horses mouth.
Which is a completely valid point, one that I agree with, however when confronted with a question such as "Why imply lesbianism and not gaiety," I'd like an honest answer. Not PR bullshit.
I'd rather for Bioware to say exactly what you've just said to my face then to beat around the bush.
And there is a basis inthat question beyond simply "showing the opposite spectrum." There was lesbianism. So regardless of your opinion it's a valid question to ask why, in a game of options extending as far as lesbianism stop at gaiety.
It's a completely legit question that should be given a legit answer as all legit questions should. While no answer will put to rest the debate it's bullshit answer like the above that only fuel flames. It doesn't make any sense. Give the honest answer. Why cut out the originally planned content? Why stop at lesbianism? Why feature it in one game and not the other?
I mean these are valid questions that shouldn't have to be satisfied with theories and excuses created by spectators. The honest truth should come out of the horses mouth.
@ReagadePanda
It's a very choice driven game, it's not unreasonable for people to wonder why this specific choice was left out. I don't care that they left it out, I'd personally never use gay scenes in Mass Effect.
It's a shame that a game based so firmly around choice can't provide that, though. Agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment.
It's a very choice driven game, it's not unreasonable for people to wonder why this specific choice was left out. I don't care that they left it out, I'd personally never use gay scenes in Mass Effect.
It's a shame that a game based so firmly around choice can't provide that, though. Agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment.
actually, if you read the whole interview (kotaku has it), the gave a really long answer that's very tactful and diplomatic but is pretty much summed up like this.
who cares if you're shepard is gay? just because YOU'RE character is gay doesn't mean everyone else in the galaxy is gay
who cares if you're shepard is gay? just because YOU'RE character is gay doesn't mean everyone else in the galaxy is gay
It's particularly odd after they had homosexual options in Dragon Age: Origins and didn't seem to get any negative public press over it...
@esin
Agreed. I'd rather them not answer the question at all then to give a half assed attempt at answering it.
Of course some won't be satisfied and some will be displeased but then the argument that those people should stop whining would actually hold sone weight. When Bioware, quite bluntly, lies about it the strength of the argument really goes tithe favor of the complainers.
If they're willing to try to answer, well then let's hear it.
Agreed. I'd rather them not answer the question at all then to give a half assed attempt at answering it.
Of course some won't be satisfied and some will be displeased but then the argument that those people should stop whining would actually hold sone weight. When Bioware, quite bluntly, lies about it the strength of the argument really goes tithe favor of the complainers.
If they're willing to try to answer, well then let's hear it.
* goes to the
My typos are awful today.
@Elsa
Agreed. That alongside the cut scenes really makes it odd.
My assumption has always been procreation somehow comes into play. And maybe Bioware doesn't want to spoil something so they don't want to say it. Even still just don't answer. Just say "We can't talk about it right now." Then it becomes neat plot speculation. Not PR.
My typos are awful today.
@Elsa
Agreed. That alongside the cut scenes really makes it odd.
My assumption has always been procreation somehow comes into play. And maybe Bioware doesn't want to spoil something so they don't want to say it. Even still just don't answer. Just say "We can't talk about it right now." Then it becomes neat plot speculation. Not PR.
"who cares if your shepard is gay? just because your character is gay doesn't mean everyone else in the galaxy is gay"
If your Shepard was gay, you would still have the option of expressing your character as such in some capacity toward the other characters even if it ended up in rejection.
If your Shepard was gay, you would still have the option of expressing your character as such in some capacity toward the other characters even if it ended up in rejection.
@Alphadues
If I lie or tiptoe around a question and someone else knows, they are completely entitled to call me out on my bullshit as I am anyone else's.
If I lie or tiptoe around a question and someone else knows, they are completely entitled to call me out on my bullshit as I am anyone else's.
What a f***ing bullshit answer! Every time I make amends with Bioware, they pull this shit out. So apparently homosexuality can't be PG-13? I didn't realize we were so offensive, what with all the tits flying around in movies these days for no god damn reason!
In the beginning I had bought ME2 mostly for Subject Zero and was sorely disappointed that she wasn't a lesbian but was then like, hey, that's life, not everyone's gay and actually kind of applauded the fact a character that was so "butch" wouldn't live up to just be a stereotype.
Everyone can tap dance around the whole "not everyone's straight, not everyone's gay" argument, but after Bioware is quoted saying the homosexual relationships are inappropriate for a M-rated game, they just take a step back from civil rights.
In the beginning I had bought ME2 mostly for Subject Zero and was sorely disappointed that she wasn't a lesbian but was then like, hey, that's life, not everyone's gay and actually kind of applauded the fact a character that was so "butch" wouldn't live up to just be a stereotype.
Everyone can tap dance around the whole "not everyone's straight, not everyone's gay" argument, but after Bioware is quoted saying the homosexual relationships are inappropriate for a M-rated game, they just take a step back from civil rights.
@Alphadeus: So one time I was at the Harvard book store (it's like the Yale bookstore, only fancier) and I went to the bathroom. The graffiti on the walls were brilliant but your rant may beat it. Calling everyone hypocrites and bringing in Star Wars sex toys all in the same post? That takes an effort I can acknowledge.
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