Quantcast


BioShock 2 director talks about moral choice in games photo

BioShock is a game about moral choices. Well, it actually isn't, and that's the problem. BioShock's moral choice system was, to put it bluntly, about as subtle as a sledgehammer to the bollocks. Deciding between killing little girls or saving them didn't really work as a moral dilemma, and we asked BioShock 2 creative director Jordan Thomas why these moral choices struggle to succeed in videogames. 

"Well, that’s a long conversation," warns Thomas. "Part of it descends from the way humans regard simulacra vs. other live humans (who could affect their status and survivability). Empathy responses involve a number of sophisticated truth-checks against the subject thereof. Mirror neurons fire in response to smells, facial and vocal cues, all designed to ensure that you’re not actually wasting your cognitive energy on a socially irrelevant non-human. Or, for that matter, to help you avoid boinking a corpse. Moral reasoning all follows from that quick calculus we’re running against every social experience we undergo.

"Now enter a video game, where objectively you know without question that none of this is real -- so at best, you’re a gentle solipsist, willing to suspend disbelief and play nice for the fun of it. At worst, you’re a freaking sociopath. You start thinking about gaming the system, not about how a live human might feel about your choices.

"There’s also a heavy interactive fidelity burden -- many moral acts are subtle or deeply situational rather than general purpose slappin’ or gunfire, so you get a lot of quick time event abstraction, which lessens the physicality of the act and robs it of some power. Development constraints also tend to lead to broad good / evil choices, which some people find a bit flip."

And what of BioShock 2? How did 2K Marin tackle the idea of morality in the new Rapture? Hit the jump for more.

"In BioShock 2, we’ve taken a tack that puts the burden on the content – meaning interactively, the choices are very simple, and in the case of the new adult choice-characters, entirely in the simulation," he explains. "But the moral context of each is highly gray and arguable from many perspectives. And by the time you’re asked to make one, you have a lot of personal exposure to that character to help offset the 'who cares' effect. We feel they’re an interesting counter-balance to the Little Sisters and certainly help to seed the ethical terrain with more subtlety, but I wouldn’t claim that we’ve solved the problem now and forevermore. If anything, the interesting bit is how they affect the story later -- but that’s spoiler country."

Our BioShock 2 review will appear like magic on the frontpage this very morning! Keep reading Destructoid for the lowdown!








More gaming stories around the web. Got news? Submit yours to tips@destructoid.com

Jim Sterling serves as reviews editor for Destructoid.com, head of the Podtoid podcast, and produces a number of news stories, original features, one-of-a-kind videos. With his passionate argumentative style, controversial opinions, harsh delivery, and dedication to brutal honesty Sterling is a name that you can't help but recognize. Likes PS2, iPod Touch, Silent Hill 2, Metal Gear Solid, Dynasty Warriors 3 Meet the rest of the team



Post a comment! You can also post a photo below:

Comment with Facebook





Click connect and comment instantly!

Comment with Dtoid





New? SIGN UP - it takes 5 seconds

20 comments | showing # 1 to 20
prev next

trueb7ue's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/08/2010 09:46
trueb7ue
SHES GOING TO PUT THAT NEEDLE IN HIS BUM!


lol didn't read anything, just thought that image was amazing.
Occams electric toothbrush's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/08/2010 09:52
Occams electric toothbrush
Mass Effect 2 has made me remember that moral choices can be interesting. Also, the needle bum comment needed to be said.
Thane Vickers's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/08/2010 09:53
Thane Vickers
You're really breaking up this interview Jim.
jorbams's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/08/2010 09:55
jorbams
I'm becoming a fan of reading this guy's words. "Boinking a corpse" wins him points. That is all it takes to endear oneself to me.
Bulkmailer's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/08/2010 10:04
Bulkmailer
Review now! Not later.
bodybreak's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/08/2010 10:04
bodybreak
When games give me a very black and white moral choice to make I usually take the moral high ground, which is funny because generally in games like GTA where moral choices don't effect the story it really doesn't phase me when I run over civs or accidently mow a few down in a shoot-out with the cops.
natetehgreat's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/08/2010 10:22
natetehgreat
This interview has actually made me more excited about the game. He sounds like he knows what he's talking about.

Simulacra.
lastdual's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/08/2010 10:27
lastdual
"Moral choice" has become one of those industry buzzwords that I wish would just go the hell away.

Just tell a decent story. If that story facilitates meaningful choices (be they "moral" or otherwise), then fine, but don't shoehorn moral dilemmas into your games just for the sake of some shallow concept of player choice.

This is why the writing sucks in so many games. A good novel doesn't tell a story that "you decide!". Focus on the story first. Worry about whether "moral choices" add to (or detract from) that story second. Do not start with the idea that "gamers want moral choices!" and then piece together some pathetic narrative around your player-choice gimmick.
hornetjockey's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/08/2010 10:32
hornetjockey
I'm fine with "moral choices" if the impact is on specific NPCs, i.e., you pickpocket from somebody and that person doesn't trust you for the duration of the game. Moral choice that results in changes to your physical appearance and the reaction of people you never previously met, especially without some sort of fleshed-out reputation system, doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
matrixdude171's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/08/2010 10:40
matrixdude171
The problem with moral systems is that in bioshock the options were so restrictive. A or B, that was it. Games like Mass effect did it right by giving more complicated options that mattered later on for the storyline, not just getting a special item.
Lakai's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/08/2010 10:43
Lakai
Where is your review Jim!?!
Holyetheline's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/08/2010 10:43
Holyetheline
I just saw IGN's review- I really want this game.
Dynamic Sheep's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/08/2010 10:59
Dynamic Sheep
@NickChester says the review drops at noon eastern time... which is in, like, a minute... so chillax guys.
Pudge Controls the Weather's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/08/2010 11:57
Pudge Controls the Weather
I think Chrono Trigger is still one of the best starting points for developers to look at when it comes to moral choices.

The cool thing is that it didn't actually TELL you that you could make choices in the game, you just found out when you got to that trial. It really changed my perspective on the game (and other RPGs)
falinter's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/08/2010 12:04
falinter
And then she stuck a needle in his ass.
Darren Nakamura's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/08/2010 16:16
Darren Nakamura
Are you sure you didn't mix this response up with the answer to when you asked, "Could you please write as much pseudo-intelligent BS as is humanly possible?"
AliasWyvernspur's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/08/2010 16:32
AliasWyvernspur
Not buying this shit because of SecuROM. How's that for a fucking moral choice?
cindy05's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2010 19:51
cindy05
For the "green paint banner" 3A green paintÖÐÆµµç¯ͭ¹Üis of special significanceÎ޷IJ¼Ä¾Æ¤, sustained release of the compelling action is written in paint industry,Ö¸½ÓľƤ·â±ßÌõ has a wonderful legend.According to authoritative information, ÒìÐÍÍ­¹Ü3A green paint ushered in the opener in the first quarter, ÒìÐÍÍ­²Äsales to double again, DÐÍÆ«ÐÄÍ­¹Üget up champion performance statusÍ¸ÆøÄ¤.Evaluation of industry veterans that, ¸ß¸´°à3A green paint from the last year, on new product development, environmental color, Ö§³Å½Çcustomer service, marketing outlets, environmental protection public,ů±¦±¦´ü×Ó the six aspects ¸ß¸´Ñ§Ð£of branding carried out a bold reform and upgrade, including The Climate Group,ůÌù´ü×ÓChina Green ²åÏúFoundation for Change "millions of forest"; with S6 green paste with leading ·À»¤¿ÚÕÖworld-class "Colorful life" pure green color system´²½ÇÌú decade of sword, a new generation of children's room decoration heavy paint "love baby"Pure green paint and ²¹Ï°Ñ§Ð£other children,·À³¾¿ÚÕÖ a series of innovations are shapingÒ½ÓÿÚÕÖthe competitive position of an edge to mark¸ß¸´its" new standard¶«Ñô¸ß¸´ "appearance as competitiveÌúÒÕ»¨¼Ü prospects of global environmental protection paint, paint industry," another great "also come to shape.
Anna Hannah's Avatar - Comment posted on 02/11/2011 08:53
Anna Hannah
its that single fact that IMO holds back a TON of PSN game sales.....how are you supposed to just impulse buy something if you don't get a little taste.
Best regards, Anna, CEO of iscsi host and itune
prev next

Comment with Facebook





Click connect and comment instantly!

Comment with Dtoid





New? SIGN UP - it takes 5 seconds

Comments policy

Destructoid is an open discussion community. You don't need to "audition" to post a comment - just speak your mind. We respect differing opinions on the site, so have at it. Be smart, funny, insightful, clueless, or cute -- but back it up with substance. Keep your cool, keep it fun. We only ask that you act respectfully and above all: don't be a troll and ruin it for everyone else. Don't bring down gamers or we'll, you know, gently shoot you in the face and stuff you into a flaming mailbox. Each comment is your opportuntity to make this community awesomer. Is that even a word?

Avoiding the banhammer only requires common sense: spamming, trolling, racism, NSFW stuff, and other forms of sucking will not be tolerated. If anyone is griefing please report abuse. Be good. Don't suck!