Another day, another out-of-touch old rocker who thinks that games like Rock Band are stopping people from playing real instruments. This time around, it's the turn of former Rolling Stone Bill Wyman, who believes that kids are being encouraged not to learn proper music because he's old and frightened of new things.
"It encourages kids not to learn, that's the trouble," he tells the BBC, as if he knows this for a fact. "It makes less and less people dedicated to really get down and learn an instrument. I think is a pity so I'm not really keen on that kind of stuff."
Pink Floyd's Nick Mason echoes Wyman's sentiments, claiming that Rock Band annoys him: "It irritates me having watched my kids do it - if they spent as much time practising the guitar as learning how to press the buttons they'd be damn good by now." Mason hasn't ruled out contributing to future Rock Band games though, because his sentiments about the games aren't overruled by his sentiments about making money. Nice to see he's got his principles intact.
You know, I think it's hilarious how news outlets love to run stories about Rock Band not encouraging people to play instruments, while at the same time running stories about how violent games DO encourage people to commit violent crimes. If music games discourage music, why don't violent games discourage violence? It's a brilliant double standard.
But yeah, sure, let's agree with the ancient old musicians, and while we're at it, let's demand that Pokémon fans force real animals to fight, and that Gears of War fans put real chainsaws on real machine guns and carve up real people.
Morons.
[Thanks, Alex]
Contest:
2:40 PM on 09.08.2009
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And this is brilliant:
If music games discourage music, why don't violent games discourage violence?
Because, that would make sense.
I wonder what would happen if rhythm games simulated all the drug addictions and infringement on privacy that musicians experience. Hmm they should get on that.
[url=http://www.lovehkfilm.com/blog/roninonempty/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/no-darth_vader.jpg]
Seriously, though, I hope you're wrong.
@Mr Melancholy:
Seriously, though, I hope you're wrong.
@Gten
I can play real instruments and yet I love music games. Strange? Not at all.
One of my dad's biggest complaints about video games (amongst the usual bollocks) is that violent army games (read: Call of Duty) make people experience the army in their room so they can't be bothered joining up in real life. He practically had a fit about it when he realised I wasn't joining up when I finished school, and he still goes on about it 4 years later. I laugh every time.
Oh, and no problem, Jim :p
...
Dammit Jesus you beat me to it!
However, I think he's missing out on one key point; not all of the people playing rock band want to play or learn an instrument.
Jim that is the most brilliant thing I ever ever heard.
As pointed out before by Jesus and Kelvinc: If the only reason they're not playing music is because they're too busy playing Rock Band or Guitar Hero then they were probably going to be shite anyway. It's like if someone forced all the really crappy dancers who played Dance Dance revelution became really crappy professional dancers. Would anyone want to be the one who made that happen?
@that1dude24[i]
You guys are much too defensive about this stuff. He is right. If the people playing rock band spent that time playing real instruments, they would be much better at their respective instruments.[/i]
TECHNICALLY yeah, but you could say that about practically anything. All the time people sit watching movies or playing sports, they COULD be learning a real instrument. It's entertainment vs education.
Played trumpet all throughout highschool, self taught piano/keyboard (albeit amateur) and can sight read sheet music better than a rainbow colored fret board on a screen. Decent enough musical background to pursue music if I wanted to.. I just chose not to. It's still there though, for the personal enrichment aspect I guess :)
A kid can't be a space marine and chainsaw aliens. He or she won't be able to become a jedi or a ninja with a flaming skull for a head. But they can learn an instrument, start a band, and play some local shows. Sure, Rock Band eventually gives you huge mega arenas and scores of virtual fans. Playing at that level is like playing in the NFL. You can play in your own backyard, but you play the video game for the super star simulation. Rock Band doesn't compare at all to the thrill of playing a real song you wrote on real instruments in front of real people at a real venue.
Let's not forget that correlation doesn't equal causation. Even if instrument sales are up, you can't prove that's from music games. Even if those sales are from music games, I wonder how many of those first instruments are doomed to collect dust tin closets once kids realize how much more work goes into playing a real instrument. But it's also that much more rewarding.
I have no problem with music games. As I said, I own and play Rock Band. What kills me is when kids get obsessed the way teenagers used to get over learning real guitar. Play the game and have fun, but if you're that enamored, learn to play the real f*cking thing.
I write and perform and I put in a shit ton of hours into RB and GH. THEY ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLDS! Do people even realize Harmonix is made up of touring/recording musicians? Some of them are pretty fucking sucessful.
@Gten - maybe you should give up the grand life of being a rockstar and go back to school cuz u grammar sux!
Guess what, musicians? You're the minority. The general populace are untalented brainless hacks that need all sorts of constant distractions to make them forget their dull march to the grave.
If you want to encourage people to be more creative you're going to have to address a much more complex cultural issue that you have pretty much no chance of affecting within your lifetime.
The fact that these guys don't even do any research into the topic before they open their mouths appalls me.
"A study by Youth Music found that 2.5 million out of 12 million children in the UK have begun learning how to play real instruments after playing music games such as Guitar Hero/Rock Band."
and Tiestro and Oncomouse, stop trying to bait people by agreeing to "the playing a real instrument is better" shtick
But at least they keep the shitty musicians in their houses.
Last time you compared a musician telling you to learn an instrument to a soldier telling you to pick a gun? Do you really believe that? Did you read that out loud? An instrument and a gun? For fucks sake Sterling.
Of course it's really annoying having people telling you how to live your personal, private, fun time. Learn or don't learn, but please stop with the lame excuses.
...in 20-30 years most of these crazy people will be dead and today's gamers will be in power.
"Even though i play RB games a lot, playing a real instrument might take effort, it doesn't have that pick up and play appeal like an RB game. I might get into playing that real guitar, but its easier to just jam with friends on an RB2 game session. Everyone has fun with less the hassle."
You're kind of making my point. Rock Band is the easy way out. If EVERYONE felt this way, where would new music come from? If everyone goes for the instant gratification, nobody will write new songs and then there won't be any new material for kids to clack along to on pretend plastic instruments.
Also, its obvious that you pick up Rock Band etc much faster than real instruments, I dont know what Nick Mason is smoking. I WISH I was as good at real guitar as I am at silly plastic guitar after a similar amount of time playing, but it just doesnt happen.
Games are an art form my friend :)
I can see why as a musician this would disappoint you, and your argument has some valid points, but the fact of the matter is that some people want to play the game for fun, not because they want to take the easy way out. I know that I do, not because learning a real instrument is hard (I have been trying to learn to Bass for a LONG time now, way before the Rhythm Game trend), but because it's fun to play RB or GH. What these guys claim is that music games take away from time that could be spent learning an instrument, but what they need to realize is that people will do what they wish, and should be allowed to do so instead of having orders barked at them, as if learning to play an instrument was a life or death choice. If someone doesn't want to learn an instrument because they have no desire to become a professional musician or for whatever other reason, then LET THEM FUCKING BE.
I'm not trying to be hostile to anyone, except maybe the old farts.
They might be... but since Rock Band came out I've definitely put more money into plastic than normal instruments. I still have 6 real guitars, though. It's just been a while since I've purchased a new one.
It does present a question of what Rock Band actually presents its audience with, a music playing replacement or a music playing fantasy? There have been music playing simulations for years and they weren't successful until Harmonix linked it to the super "Rockstar" fantasty. GH and RB let someone live out a rockstar fantasy, just like other games do with knights and space marines. Only a small fraction of people who actually take the time to learn to play a musical intrument will ever qualify for "rockstar" status. If the experience presented by the game is something that I might never experience in real life regardless of time and dedication, am I wasting my time fantasizing about it in a game?
The question of whether music games keep people from learning to play real musical instruments as a hobby is probably a technophobic moral panic issue. I think the greater issue is that music programs are being shut down in schools country wide, and I know that Guitar Hero didn't cause that.
It's funny that NBA players aren't complaining that games like NBA 2K10 are keeping people from learning to play real basketball.