Bill Wyman thinks Rock Band stops people playing music

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2:40 PM on 09.08.2009, Jim Sterling

62 comments | 5910 views

Bill Wyman thinks Rock Band stops people playing music photo

#Electronic Arts #Epic Douchebag #Harmonix #Music games #Rock Band #Utterly pathetic

Another day, another out-of-touch old rocker who thinks that games like Rock Band are stopping people from playing real instruments. This time around, it's the turn of former Rolling Stone Bill Wyman, who believes that kids are being encouraged not to learn proper music because he's old and frightened of new things.

"It encourages kids not to learn, that's the trouble," he tells the BBC, as if he knows this for a fact. "It makes less and less people dedicated to really get down and learn an instrument. I think is a pity so I'm not really keen on that kind of stuff."

Pink Floyd's Nick Mason echoes Wyman's sentiments, claiming that Rock Band annoys him: "It irritates me having watched my kids do it - if they spent as much time practising the guitar as learning how to press the buttons they'd be damn good by now." Mason hasn't ruled out contributing to future Rock Band games though, because his sentiments about the games aren't overruled by his sentiments about making money. Nice to see he's got his principles intact.

You know, I think it's hilarious how news outlets love to run stories about Rock Band not encouraging people to play instruments, while at the same time running stories about how violent games DO encourage people to commit violent crimes. If music games discourage music, why don't violent games discourage violence? It's a brilliant double standard.

But yeah, sure, let's agree with the ancient old musicians, and while we're at it, let's demand that Pokémon fans force real animals to fight, and that Gears of War fans put real chainsaws on real machine guns and carve up real people.

Morons.

[Thanks, Alex]

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next 50 comments

62 comments | showing # 1 to 50

zombiekiller13

He's bitter because the Beatles got their own version of Rock Band.

And this is brilliant:

If music games discourage music, why don't violent games discourage violence?

Super Drybones

@ zombiekiller13
Because, that would make sense.

Double J

Jim, that double standard you pointed out has to be the most brilliant thing I've ever heard. I'm going to tweet/facebook/everything else this article based on that alone. Well that, and it's a good article.

Mr Melancholy

There goes Rock Band: Pink Floyd. I honestly think music games are okay. Nobody I've met plays it as a replacement to a real instrument. In fact I think it actually encourages people to try and perform music.

wanderingpixel

Gten

I hate those games, but I think is mainly cuz I'm a musician and when u know how to play the real instrument the game seems retarded

Br0th3rGr1mm

Rock Band: The Rolling Stones (without the old gent drummer we had for 30 years that now doesn't want fists full of money and won't shut his dusty old yap...)

silvain

Well done, Jim. Nice way to sum up the double standard. I'll use that one in the future.

rockydil

Echoing: Good point on the double standard.

Dreamsower

My experience with Rock Band has been motivations to want to make some form of music myself because of the fun I had playing stuff. Also I would definitely say rhythm games in general tend to introduce people to genres of music or groups they may not have come across otherwise.

I wonder what would happen if rhythm games simulated all the drug addictions and infringement on privacy that musicians experience. Hmm they should get on that.

Arkhon

@Mr Melancholy:

[url=http://www.lovehkfilm.com/blog/roninonempty/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/no-darth_vader.jpg]

Seriously, though, I hope you're wrong.

ArrestedDeveloper

Fact: My acoustic guitar broke right around the time Rockband came out. Coincidence?

Arkhon

I phail. I can't believe I mixed hyperlink up with image tags.

@Mr Melancholy:

Seriously, though, I hope you're wrong.

Niero

Aren't instrument sales up? I mean, Best Buy just started carrying real instruments.

DaedHead8

I had this same argument with my cousin yesterday. He plays some games but music is totally his life. We've had this argument before but yesterday it was brought up by me telling him about DJ Hero. I don't understand why some musicians feel that these games don't inspire people.

@Gten

I can play real instruments and yet I love music games. Strange? Not at all.

Jesus H Christ

As I've said before, if you think kids not playing real instruments is a bad thing, go down to your local rock club and watch a few local bands play. You'll find yourself wishing these kids were at home playing Rockband instead.

CtMythic

"If music games discourage music, why don't violent games discourage violence?"

One of my dad's biggest complaints about video games (amongst the usual bollocks) is that violent army games (read: Call of Duty) make people experience the army in their room so they can't be bothered joining up in real life. He practically had a fit about it when he realised I wasn't joining up when I finished school, and he still goes on about it 4 years later. I laugh every time.

Oh, and no problem, Jim :p

Super Drybones

play-doh face is right, video games are evil because he used to make music in the 60's.

Preacher747

Ever since the ability to record and play music back was popularized with the phonograph, human beings have been playing less and less music themselves. So why don't we blame the record labels for keeping people from learning to play music?

kelvinc

I think Wyman's right but it's a good thing, because the world already has too many tonally half-assed douchebags pretending to playing music and hurting our collective ears. We need to divert them to something that would clearly result in less unexpected pregnancies and sullying the gene pool.

...

Dammit Jesus you beat me to it!

Mr Melancholy

Beatles Rock Band is evil. The Daily Mail said so.

that1dude24

You guys are much too defensive about this stuff. He is right. If the people playing rock band spent that time playing real instruments, they would be much better at their respective instruments.

However, I think he's missing out on one key point; not all of the people playing rock band want to play or learn an instrument.

Arkhon

Ha @ Daily Mail. Those idiots have no idea what they're talking about half the time, and the other half they have an even foggier idea.

Mr Melancholy

@that1dude24: What type of reaction did you expect from a gaming blog?

MasterBalls

I'll wait for someone to link that video of the homemade lancer...

GoldenGamerXero

If music games discourage music, why don't violent games discourage violence?

Jim that is the most brilliant thing I ever ever heard.

As pointed out before by Jesus and Kelvinc: If the only reason they're not playing music is because they're too busy playing Rock Band or Guitar Hero then they were probably going to be shite anyway. It's like if someone forced all the really crappy dancers who played Dance Dance revelution became really crappy professional dancers. Would anyone want to be the one who made that happen?

GuitarAtomik

If it means less Rolling Stones and Pink Floyd in my DLC, keep thinking that bro.

@that1dude24[i]
You guys are much too defensive about this stuff. He is right. If the people playing rock band spent that time playing real instruments, they would be much better at their respective instruments.[/i]

TECHNICALLY yeah, but you could say that about practically anything. All the time people sit watching movies or playing sports, they COULD be learning a real instrument. It's entertainment vs education.

Tristero

I have mixed feelings on these games myself. Of course they should exist and of course people should play them if they want to. But I do think that it's kind of shame that some kids might miss out on the experience of learning real instruments and playing in real bands because they've put that energy towards these games. Some of my best memories as a teenager are from the cool experiences I had playing in punk bands. There's this huge sense of adventure and feeling that the world is opening up to you. So, I look at music games with a bit of sadness thinking kids might be satisfied with the game experience and feel less motivation to seek out the real thing.

Vedicardi2

he doesn't get it

Chuzzle

Count me among the masses that want to actually learn to play guitar, courtesy of these games that do nothing to promote musical interest. Heh.

Played trumpet all throughout highschool, self taught piano/keyboard (albeit amateur) and can sight read sheet music better than a rainbow colored fret board on a screen. Decent enough musical background to pursue music if I wanted to.. I just chose not to. It's still there though, for the personal enrichment aspect I guess :)

Oncomouse

I have to agree with Tristero. I've been a bass player for 15+ years. I played in some bands when I was younger. We played bars/clubs and sometimes even got paid. I still record at home for fun but I don't have time for a band right now. I do own Rock Band 2 and I've spent way too much money on songs. It's fun, but no substitute for the real thing.

A kid can't be a space marine and chainsaw aliens. He or she won't be able to become a jedi or a ninja with a flaming skull for a head. But they can learn an instrument, start a band, and play some local shows. Sure, Rock Band eventually gives you huge mega arenas and scores of virtual fans. Playing at that level is like playing in the NFL. You can play in your own backyard, but you play the video game for the super star simulation. Rock Band doesn't compare at all to the thrill of playing a real song you wrote on real instruments in front of real people at a real venue.

Let's not forget that correlation doesn't equal causation. Even if instrument sales are up, you can't prove that's from music games. Even if those sales are from music games, I wonder how many of those first instruments are doomed to collect dust tin closets once kids realize how much more work goes into playing a real instrument. But it's also that much more rewarding.

I have no problem with music games. As I said, I own and play Rock Band. What kills me is when kids get obsessed the way teenagers used to get over learning real guitar. Play the game and have fun, but if you're that enamored, learn to play the real f*cking thing.

BattyAdroit

@Gten: Do you also hate grammar?

Xzyliac

Bleh. You're a far bigger loser if you're offended by RB than you are if you play RB religiously. Clearly you're missing the point.

I write and perform and I put in a shit ton of hours into RB and GH. THEY ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLDS! Do people even realize Harmonix is made up of touring/recording musicians? Some of them are pretty fucking sucessful.

PappaDukes

I play video games, therefore I can't play musical instruments? RB is a fucking game. Of course, if you play it (or ANY video game) you are taking away from any other hobby you could be doing. And last I checked, once you know how to play guitar, you don't have to play every hour of the day to remain a functional guitar player (or whatever instrument you choose). It's not like I play a video game for 6 hours and forget how to read a fucking book.

@Gten - maybe you should give up the grand life of being a rockstar and go back to school cuz u grammar sux!

Rosseh

Get with the god damn times. Pop music has been sucking a lot longer than Rhythmn games have existed. You better embrace games like Rock Band and get your licensing deals because soon that's going to be one of your main sources of income when people finally stop buying CDs altogether.

Guess what, musicians? You're the minority. The general populace are untalented brainless hacks that need all sorts of constant distractions to make them forget their dull march to the grave.

If you want to encourage people to be more creative you're going to have to address a much more complex cultural issue that you have pretty much no chance of affecting within your lifetime.

Anus Mcphanus

Well here's my thoughts on the subject.

The fact that these guys don't even do any research into the topic before they open their mouths appalls me.

"A study by Youth Music found that 2.5 million out of 12 million children in the UK have begun learning how to play real instruments after playing music games such as Guitar Hero/Rock Band."

Gene Eric

Old people are stupid.
and Tiestro and Oncomouse, stop trying to bait people by agreeing to "the playing a real instrument is better" shtick

HiddenAHB

I think music games are overrated, and they aren't very innovative, even DJ Hero, wich is Guitar Hero with a different plastic thing. Since the GH boom i don't see many invotions in the genre.
But at least they keep the shitty musicians in their houses.

Trevor McGee

He's an idiot. If anything it gets people more interested in playing an actual instrument.

Gene Eric

Even though i play RB games a lot, playing a real instrument might take effort, it doesn't have that pick up and play appeal like an RB game. I might get into playing that real guitar, but its easier to just jam with friends on an RB2 game session. Everyone has fun with less the hassle.

Cough

I usually agree with you Jim, in a lurker "doesn't comment much" kind of way, but on this one i take a step to the side. Comparing learning a new "kind of useful" skill to something like animals fighting each other is absolutely childish. It's apples and kiwis.

Last time you compared a musician telling you to learn an instrument to a soldier telling you to pick a gun? Do you really believe that? Did you read that out loud? An instrument and a gun? For fucks sake Sterling.

Of course it's really annoying having people telling you how to live your personal, private, fun time. Learn or don't learn, but please stop with the lame excuses.

Nerdy Suit

Don't worry, everyone...

...in 20-30 years most of these crazy people will be dead and today's gamers will be in power.

EdgyDude

Senile old idiots are so fun to listen, they say the darnest things don't they?. That point aside, it really is as Sterling says, pretty much a pathetic double standard.

atticusflinch

I would agree that these doddering oldsters are basically clueless, but there is a fundemental flaw in your logic. Violence, for the most part, does not require hard work and practice. On the other hand, becoming a proficient musician does indeed require diligence and dedication. The equally flawed arguments by these musty old musicians is that playing games discourages musicianship because the hard work involved learning to excel in the game could be spent on real music. I believe the games could actually inspire a devotion to an instrument (or two). However, I doubt many career criminals are thinking that time spent on games keeps a kid from practicing to become better losers. One requires discipline, the other an absence of discipline. In fairness, they don't say the games will discourage music - only musicianship, those are your words. I agree with the sentiment, just not the consistency and precision of the stated logic.

Oncomouse

Gene, I'm not trying to bait people. I own and enjoy Rock Band, but it's nothing like playing a real instrument. One is a game, the other is an art form.

"Even though i play RB games a lot, playing a real instrument might take effort, it doesn't have that pick up and play appeal like an RB game. I might get into playing that real guitar, but its easier to just jam with friends on an RB2 game session. Everyone has fun with less the hassle."

You're kind of making my point. Rock Band is the easy way out. If EVERYONE felt this way, where would new music come from? If everyone goes for the instant gratification, nobody will write new songs and then there won't be any new material for kids to clack along to on pretend plastic instruments.

ajaxender

Wow, they are being stupid. People will learn if they want to. My brother plays the game a fair bit, and I've tried to teach him a number of simple songs for real; he's just not into it.

Also, its obvious that you pick up Rock Band etc much faster than real instruments, I dont know what Nick Mason is smoking. I WISH I was as good at real guitar as I am at silly plastic guitar after a similar amount of time playing, but it just doesnt happen.

WarZombie

"Gene, I'm not trying to bait people. I own and enjoy Rock Band, but it's nothing like playing a real instrument. One is a game, the other is an art form."

Games are an art form my friend :)

I can see why as a musician this would disappoint you, and your argument has some valid points, but the fact of the matter is that some people want to play the game for fun, not because they want to take the easy way out. I know that I do, not because learning a real instrument is hard (I have been trying to learn to Bass for a LONG time now, way before the Rhythm Game trend), but because it's fun to play RB or GH. What these guys claim is that music games take away from time that could be spent learning an instrument, but what they need to realize is that people will do what they wish, and should be allowed to do so instead of having orders barked at them, as if learning to play an instrument was a life or death choice. If someone doesn't want to learn an instrument because they have no desire to become a professional musician or for whatever other reason, then LET THEM FUCKING BE.

I'm not trying to be hostile to anyone, except maybe the old farts.

Holyetheline

@Neiro

They might be... but since Rock Band came out I've definitely put more money into plastic than normal instruments. I still have 6 real guitars, though. It's just been a while since I've purchased a new one.

meijin3

That was a great point about the double standard. I don't know why old folk are against video games but not other forms of media!

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