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@anyone overseas
if you're forced to go the import route, and you have an unmodded PAL console, can you even play NTSC titles?
if you mod your console and import, will NTSC discs display correctly on PAL tvs?
i know if you don't patch a PAL game and try to run it on an NTSC device, its unplayable (it loads but the image skips like crazy)
if you're forced to go the import route, and you have an unmodded PAL console, can you even play NTSC titles?
if you mod your console and import, will NTSC discs display correctly on PAL tvs?
i know if you don't patch a PAL game and try to run it on an NTSC device, its unplayable (it loads but the image skips like crazy)
Online petitions are ineffective for the most part. While we'll probably do one just for the sake of it, GFG will be trying to tackle this issue is new, more effective ways.
@sterling
you mean raiding the BBFC's headquarters?
or are you talking more on the lines of an roadside IED?
you mean raiding the BBFC's headquarters?
or are you talking more on the lines of an roadside IED?
PAL video formats are "bigger" (in pixel dimensions) than NTSC, and since europeans are smarter than europeans, they've got the image skip problem under control.
In short, GalagaBug, they usually have no problems with NTSC software.
Remember, America was founded by the crazy people the Church of England thought were too extreme to stay in the UK.
In short, GalagaBug, they usually have no problems with NTSC software.
Remember, America was founded by the crazy people the Church of England thought were too extreme to stay in the UK.
Jim, I'm sounding like a broken record here, but shove some indisputaable evidence of their ass. This is the only thing which will expose them.
Seriously, I know where this is going, his self righteous response to your email has set the tone, they are untouchable and they know it, they don't have to answer to anyone but themselves, BUT BUT BUT, they cannot ignore data and facts.
Gathered data, facts and evidence is the only way to approach this scenario, you will have science and reason on your side, evidence cannot be ignored or responded to with a self righteous retort.
Remeber that the good thing about this situation is that regardless of opinion, the truth is on our side, evidence shows that videogames have no affect on peoples behaviour or psychology, nor do gamers commit any vioent anti social acts. These facts alone render the BBFC's decision totally incorrect and unjustifiable. So just to repeat myself yet again, you have to take the scientific route and turn this into a debate about facts rather than opinions of people, because if this turns into a opinion debate (which is what the BBFC is already trying to do) they will win, because their opinions are untouchable.
Seriously, I know where this is going, his self righteous response to your email has set the tone, they are untouchable and they know it, they don't have to answer to anyone but themselves, BUT BUT BUT, they cannot ignore data and facts.
Gathered data, facts and evidence is the only way to approach this scenario, you will have science and reason on your side, evidence cannot be ignored or responded to with a self righteous retort.
Remeber that the good thing about this situation is that regardless of opinion, the truth is on our side, evidence shows that videogames have no affect on peoples behaviour or psychology, nor do gamers commit any vioent anti social acts. These facts alone render the BBFC's decision totally incorrect and unjustifiable. So just to repeat myself yet again, you have to take the scientific route and turn this into a debate about facts rather than opinions of people, because if this turns into a opinion debate (which is what the BBFC is already trying to do) they will win, because their opinions are untouchable.
Its this idiotic posturing of "doing it for the children" that is turning the industry into a legal nightmare. Most of the people making these decisions are a.) adults who are either too old to have ever played a video game or b.) those that never became interested in the hobby. Their automatic assumptions are: videogame = child's pastime. There's no awareness of the fact that the vast majority of gamers are adults. Then theres the political benefit for them of giving the appearance of doing something good and just by "protecting" the little ones from some vague threat.
Here's an idea...FUCK 'EM!
Thats right, fuck the parents and the little cocksuckers. I have approximately 70-80 years of life on this planet and I'll be damned if I have to deny myself enjoyment because some little genetic disaster can't differentiate between a game, a cartoon, etc and reality. And thats even giving credit to the idea that it affects them at all. I'm in the US and can't help but weep for the UK. The citizens have had to put up now with camera surveillance in all aspects of their lives because a few politicos feel the need to "protect" it's citizens from potential "terror". Now they have douchebags like this who feel the need to protect the citizens from themselves. This organization and its principle should perhaps look around and understand that adults and parents have the innate ability to make decisions for themselves and their children. Its a radical concept, I know. It's one that the politicians over here are beginning to forget as well.
Here's an idea...FUCK 'EM!
Thats right, fuck the parents and the little cocksuckers. I have approximately 70-80 years of life on this planet and I'll be damned if I have to deny myself enjoyment because some little genetic disaster can't differentiate between a game, a cartoon, etc and reality. And thats even giving credit to the idea that it affects them at all. I'm in the US and can't help but weep for the UK. The citizens have had to put up now with camera surveillance in all aspects of their lives because a few politicos feel the need to "protect" it's citizens from potential "terror". Now they have douchebags like this who feel the need to protect the citizens from themselves. This organization and its principle should perhaps look around and understand that adults and parents have the innate ability to make decisions for themselves and their children. Its a radical concept, I know. It's one that the politicians over here are beginning to forget as well.
@Galagabug - nope, we can't play NTSC games on an unmodded PAL console, but the whole of Europe uses PAL, and it's a big place. The game has ben banned (so far) in the UK and Ireland. Germany will probably do so too, since I believe they didn't even have the first game, the same as Australia (not in Europe, but also a PAL territory). But that still leaves a lot of PAL countries who haven't banned the game. I fancy a trip to Amsterdam to...erm, go and buy Manhunt 2, anyone in?
Anyway, back to G4G. One thing it'd be useful to find out is if the BBFC is regulated by any other organisation - a key element here is getting your voice heard by the right people. It's definitely possible to orchestrate an effcective response if you can get enough people to spread the word, though; the whole Jade Goody debacle earlier in the year was started by a bunch of people on the Digital Spy website, I believe - unfortunately, in that case there was a an easily accessible body to who you could complain: OFCOM, the TV watchdog. In the case of the BBFC, it's a little more complicated, because they ARE the watchdog. It could mean that part of the strategy should be to do the good old-fashioned "write a letter to your MP" - if enough people did this, it could lead to a question being asked in Parliament, which would definitely get some exposure to the other side of the argument.
Don't get me wrong - I'm all for posting a turd through the BBFC's letterbox, but if we really want to make some noise about this, it would be good to attack it on a number of fronts.
Anyway, back to G4G. One thing it'd be useful to find out is if the BBFC is regulated by any other organisation - a key element here is getting your voice heard by the right people. It's definitely possible to orchestrate an effcective response if you can get enough people to spread the word, though; the whole Jade Goody debacle earlier in the year was started by a bunch of people on the Digital Spy website, I believe - unfortunately, in that case there was a an easily accessible body to who you could complain: OFCOM, the TV watchdog. In the case of the BBFC, it's a little more complicated, because they ARE the watchdog. It could mean that part of the strategy should be to do the good old-fashioned "write a letter to your MP" - if enough people did this, it could lead to a question being asked in Parliament, which would definitely get some exposure to the other side of the argument.
Don't get me wrong - I'm all for posting a turd through the BBFC's letterbox, but if we really want to make some noise about this, it would be good to attack it on a number of fronts.
I don't even think he answered any of your questions. He didn't touch on any of the moral judgement adults make that you stated in your email.
I think we should all try email the BBFC.
I think we need to really start acting out now. First Rule of Rose, nearly Bully and now this.. what's next?
I think we need to really start acting out now. First Rule of Rose, nearly Bully and now this.. what's next?
I hate to say it Jim... I think it would have been better to present yourself in a slightly more professional manner.
I'm pretty sure that you got a form response with a sentence added at the end, that or this guy simply evaded every freaking question you asked. Also,why is MANHUNT 2 in all caps like that?
I'm pretty sure that you got a form response with a sentence added at the end, that or this guy simply evaded every freaking question you asked. Also,why is MANHUNT 2 in all caps like that?
No game should be banned, none. If you don't like it, don't play it. If you don't want your children to play it, don't let them. If you do not like the content of said game, then condemn it with your words and leave it at that. But do not ever assume any of them should be banned. It's, as Jim said in so many words, a slippery slope in which would make it easier to ban other games in the future.
Even admitting that you think some games should be banned, gives them the power and justification to do it. Don't help ruin video games for the rest of us just because you can't stomach or tolerate the game in question, leave it to those who want it and enjoy it.
I am not a child anymore, I would rather not give anyone the power to tell me as an adult what I can and cannot play.
Even admitting that you think some games should be banned, gives them the power and justification to do it. Don't help ruin video games for the rest of us just because you can't stomach or tolerate the game in question, leave it to those who want it and enjoy it.
I am not a child anymore, I would rather not give anyone the power to tell me as an adult what I can and cannot play.
bhive01
At some point you need to force people to respond like a human. Dealing with these sorts you do get a automated reply.
At some point you need to force people to respond like a human. Dealing with these sorts you do get a automated reply.
"You also like to read our recent video game research published earlier this year."
That's so awesome! It's like they know everything about you! :|
That's so awesome! It's like they know everything about you! :|
Good luck importing the Wii version.
Nintendo will not allow the game to appear on the Wii with an AO rating.
Nintendo will not allow the game to appear on the Wii with an AO rating.
Jim,
This is much bigger than just the UK. If they can get away with this, then surely we will see other countries jumping at the chance to follow suit. Not to mention 'he who must not be named.'
As an American brother who is disgusted at the BBFC for this... I'm sure I speak for us all when I say that we all fully support your stance. Good for you for writing that email, and let's not give up until they pull their heads out of their asses.
This is much bigger than just the UK. If they can get away with this, then surely we will see other countries jumping at the chance to follow suit. Not to mention 'he who must not be named.'
As an American brother who is disgusted at the BBFC for this... I'm sure I speak for us all when I say that we all fully support your stance. Good for you for writing that email, and let's not give up until they pull their heads out of their asses.
I have only started to read the research...it so far seems like male gamers have a bigger problem than female gamers...LOL
SLiFE: the AO rating would only be applicable in North America - so ironically, there's still a chance this game could be seen on the Wii in Europe.
@Touch
I do not believe that is the case. If a game receives an AO rating via the ESRB in America, they refuse the carry the title on this systems. Period.
I do not believe that is the case. If a game receives an AO rating via the ESRB in America, they refuse the carry the title on this systems. Period.
@ DrkAdonis: if that's true, it sucks to high heaven. This thing just keeps getting worse. You don't think the game will get a release in Japan either?
Won't Rockstar be a little annoyed that their multimillion dollar investment just got pissed up the wall? I'm betting that they are going to kick the appeal process into overdrive as of tomorrow.
Won't Rockstar be a little annoyed that their multimillion dollar investment just got pissed up the wall? I'm betting that they are going to kick the appeal process into overdrive as of tomorrow.
Devil's advocate, reporting in for flaming duty:
They have guidelines available to viewed by the general populace. The have reviewed this game in accordance with those guidelines and found it in violation. Of course, none of us had a problem with those guidelines until they actually made a decision to stop a game based on those guidelines. I see a lot of ranting and raving that should have happened ages ago when the guidelines were issued, if you have such a problem with them.
Also, have any of us seen this game in action? Can we safely say that the content of this game is suitable to be seen? No, we can't. They saw it, and we didn't. We have no idea what was in there, except that it was ultra-violent. Now, us apathetic gamers might not care about gratuitous violence due to our systematic desensitization to it, but might the average consumer be deeply disturbed by the content? Obviously, it's quite possible.
Lastly, you don't complain that Blockbuster won't carry porn, but when another retailer won't carry your game, you get absurdly indignant and send snide remarks to people, which won't get a single thing accomplished. If I want an open channel of discussion with them, I try not to insult them and their organization right off the bat. Save it for when things really get heated.
If you're going to make a sound argument, you need to understand the opposing viewpoint. I see very little of that, and a whole lot of conspiracy theorists ranting about Big Brother is trying to put a stop to gaming.
The rant endeth.
They have guidelines available to viewed by the general populace. The have reviewed this game in accordance with those guidelines and found it in violation. Of course, none of us had a problem with those guidelines until they actually made a decision to stop a game based on those guidelines. I see a lot of ranting and raving that should have happened ages ago when the guidelines were issued, if you have such a problem with them.
Also, have any of us seen this game in action? Can we safely say that the content of this game is suitable to be seen? No, we can't. They saw it, and we didn't. We have no idea what was in there, except that it was ultra-violent. Now, us apathetic gamers might not care about gratuitous violence due to our systematic desensitization to it, but might the average consumer be deeply disturbed by the content? Obviously, it's quite possible.
Lastly, you don't complain that Blockbuster won't carry porn, but when another retailer won't carry your game, you get absurdly indignant and send snide remarks to people, which won't get a single thing accomplished. If I want an open channel of discussion with them, I try not to insult them and their organization right off the bat. Save it for when things really get heated.
If you're going to make a sound argument, you need to understand the opposing viewpoint. I see very little of that, and a whole lot of conspiracy theorists ranting about Big Brother is trying to put a stop to gaming.
The rant endeth.
@Touch: Agreed. They almost have to be formulating some sort of response to this madness. This would be such a ridiculous hit to their bank account that it's not even amusing.
I just hope that when the dust settles and RockStar, and all gamers for that matter, come out on top... that they give DToid some love for fighting the good fight!
I just hope that when the dust settles and RockStar, and all gamers for that matter, come out on top... that they give DToid some love for fighting the good fight!
A final note: Jim Sterling, I am a huge fan of your writing. But letters to executives and bureaucrats don't work very well when they're written in the same tone as your D-toid articles. This is not the way to start a campaign. Now anything with your name attached to it will smell of angry sarcasm to those you're fighting against, and will be disregarded in kind.
MechaMonkey
who and what are you talking about. You cant compare blockbuster to porn to this. It is expected to never see porn at blockbuster...they have soft stuff but no one rents that.
It is expected to make a game and play it. Sell it and make money off the hard work your company has put into it.
who and what are you talking about. You cant compare blockbuster to porn to this. It is expected to never see porn at blockbuster...they have soft stuff but no one rents that.
It is expected to make a game and play it. Sell it and make money off the hard work your company has put into it.
He didn't answer anything you asked. He pretty much just told you that manhunt got banned because they banned manhunt.
And BTW, you should read the guidelines and the research so you can bring out points from those if you can.
And BTW, you should read the guidelines and the research so you can bring out points from those if you can.
@ bluewolf: In his letter, Mr. Sterling contrasted the allowance of porn to the censorship in the game industry. Why are you calling out my use of it, and not his?
MechaMonkey:
If my plan was to continue personally dealing with those I'm fighting against, I'd certainly be worried. You can consider this email a warning shot, if anything. From now on, my focus is not on the BBFC, it's on something far more influential - the mainstream press.
Remember kidZ, stay tuned.
If my plan was to continue personally dealing with those I'm fighting against, I'd certainly be worried. You can consider this email a warning shot, if anything. From now on, my focus is not on the BBFC, it's on something far more influential - the mainstream press.
Remember kidZ, stay tuned.
I agree with MechaMonkey. Sarcasm is great for Dtoid. Not so much for formal and semi-formal business writing. And, his comparison is valid. In the US we look at porn in the same way that violence is treated in the UK. We (US) have very little tolerance for pornography, and they (UK) have little tolerance for violence. At least that is my impression of the UK.
I like freedom of speech as much as the next guy, but some things are just unnecessarily offensive for the hell of it and are just asking to get banned. If Manhunt 2 was going to give an introspective look at the mind of a serial killer or something like that, then maybe we'd be better off if it stayed un-banned. No, though, it was just going to be mindless stupid killing like other Rockstar titles.
If you ask to get banned, it's probably going to happen. You think we'd be better off in internet forums without the higher ups banning certain individuals? How about online videogame playing without banning cheaters?
Sure the banning of media is a considerably different issue, but banning has always happened and will continue to happen. I'd fight for Manhunt if I thought it was worth fighting for, but as it stands, the game is just garbage spewed from someone's twisted mind. It isn't worth saving.
I understand what this decision might do to future videogames though. I also think it might make publishers think twice about making mindlessly violent games. It's sort of a win/lose situation.
If you ask to get banned, it's probably going to happen. You think we'd be better off in internet forums without the higher ups banning certain individuals? How about online videogame playing without banning cheaters?
Sure the banning of media is a considerably different issue, but banning has always happened and will continue to happen. I'd fight for Manhunt if I thought it was worth fighting for, but as it stands, the game is just garbage spewed from someone's twisted mind. It isn't worth saving.
I understand what this decision might do to future videogames though. I also think it might make publishers think twice about making mindlessly violent games. It's sort of a win/lose situation.
note: my prediction that Manhunt 2 was going to be mindless violence is just conjecture based on the first Manhunt and Rockstar's track record and may or may not represent the final product that is Manhunt 2.
Sometimes you have to be an ass to get a better response..way to go Jim.
It's time to fight the man.
http://www.videogamevoters.org/
It's time to fight the man.
http://www.videogamevoters.org/
This could be a sad day in gaming, my stomach is uneasy. I really didn't think games were treated THIS unequally.
Rockstar games are fun to play though it features a bit of violent activities.
Ervin
http://www.spaml.com
Ervin
http://www.spaml.com
man..this isnt fair at all...movies run crazy and video games get shit on day in and day out...how can this be stopped!?
@The Brain
That's all well and good, but I don't even have enough fingers to count all the crappy mindlessly violent movies all these big retail stores carry on their shelves. A lot of them are unrated now, and (at least in Canada) are freely available to anyone of any age to purchase at their discretion. Unrated, meaning they didn't even get reviewed by ANYONE, and they're sitting on shelves.
If this was a sex sim, fine, compare it to porn. But we're talking about violence, so it should be compared to other violence. While I might think the game is worthless, I think, nay, KNOW, others see worth in it. Even if it's the most horrible game ever constructed, people can still have fun with it. I can't count how many awesome night I've spent sitting around with my friends watching dreadful movies and hollering with laughter. "Jesus Christ, Vampire Slayer" anyone?? Zombie Lake? Dare I say it... Leeches?
Just look at all those campy slasher films of the 80s. They're now a major part of cinematic history, and were hugely influential on everything that came afterwards. Hell, Halloween and Scream are in my University textbook. Mindless, yes. But also fun. Blood and gore? Check. Can you still buy an unrated DVD of Hostel, Saw, or any number of others (Jeepers Creepers, Final Destination, 28 Days Later, Dawn of the Dead, The Hills Have Eyes, Texas Chainsaw, ect...) You betcha.
So no, it's not a matter of the perceived value of the game, but rather the principle of the matter, and the hypocrisy of it all.
That's all well and good, but I don't even have enough fingers to count all the crappy mindlessly violent movies all these big retail stores carry on their shelves. A lot of them are unrated now, and (at least in Canada) are freely available to anyone of any age to purchase at their discretion. Unrated, meaning they didn't even get reviewed by ANYONE, and they're sitting on shelves.
If this was a sex sim, fine, compare it to porn. But we're talking about violence, so it should be compared to other violence. While I might think the game is worthless, I think, nay, KNOW, others see worth in it. Even if it's the most horrible game ever constructed, people can still have fun with it. I can't count how many awesome night I've spent sitting around with my friends watching dreadful movies and hollering with laughter. "Jesus Christ, Vampire Slayer" anyone?? Zombie Lake? Dare I say it... Leeches?
Just look at all those campy slasher films of the 80s. They're now a major part of cinematic history, and were hugely influential on everything that came afterwards. Hell, Halloween and Scream are in my University textbook. Mindless, yes. But also fun. Blood and gore? Check. Can you still buy an unrated DVD of Hostel, Saw, or any number of others (Jeepers Creepers, Final Destination, 28 Days Later, Dawn of the Dead, The Hills Have Eyes, Texas Chainsaw, ect...) You betcha.
So no, it's not a matter of the perceived value of the game, but rather the principle of the matter, and the hypocrisy of it all.
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