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Uh..no?
If the game allowed you to beat to death children, then use their dead bodies to beat other children to death, I would consider that ban-worthy.
If the game took actual predominant political figureheads and killed them in vicious horrible ways, and encouraged your doing so, that would probably be ban-worthy, to an extent.
But like you said, we should be given the right to decide for ourselves. What they should do is push an extensive campaign to completely educate parents that this game is not for their kids, at all. Not just outright ban it.
Keep fighting.
If the game allowed you to beat to death children, then use their dead bodies to beat other children to death, I would consider that ban-worthy.
If the game took actual predominant political figureheads and killed them in vicious horrible ways, and encouraged your doing so, that would probably be ban-worthy, to an extent.
But like you said, we should be given the right to decide for ourselves. What they should do is push an extensive campaign to completely educate parents that this game is not for their kids, at all. Not just outright ban it.
Keep fighting.
Agreed.
Unless the testers eyes melted or they needed severe psychiatric therapy, i see no reason to not allow this game to be sold on UK soil.
I love how he had no bones with the importing though.
Nice.
Also: "You also like to read our recent video game research published earlier this
year." - Generally grammar helps you get taken a lot more seriously. Obviously no one told Mr Green that.
Pedantic yes but i tend to get picky about grammar and spelling when it comes to being contacted by people of authority.
Unless the testers eyes melted or they needed severe psychiatric therapy, i see no reason to not allow this game to be sold on UK soil.
I love how he had no bones with the importing though.
Nice.
Also: "You also like to read our recent video game research published earlier this
year." - Generally grammar helps you get taken a lot more seriously. Obviously no one told Mr Green that.
Pedantic yes but i tend to get picky about grammar and spelling when it comes to being contacted by people of authority.
I would say it's a definite 'general' response. Replace MANHUNT 2 with any game name, and voila, general response.
Heh, great work. Kinda suprised by a answer at all from BBFC. (Bitchin 'Bout Fascinating Computergames)
Mabec:
I was tempted by "Bloody Bunch of Fucking Cunts" buuuuuut, I need to have my mature face on. :D
I was tempted by "Bloody Bunch of Fucking Cunts" buuuuuut, I need to have my mature face on. :D
Lord Sterling is really getting his knickers in a bunch over this isn't he? Who would have known that the response would contain a small amount of snark in it. That was great.
it looks like you got a cut-and-paste reply, with a personal message at the end assuring you it was not cut and paste.
Good on him for getting back to you! IMHO no game should ever be completely banned from sale. If there is the demand there, people should be allowed it. It should be the decision of the retail outlet as to whther they want to sell the product and therefore be associated with it.
Unfortunately it either has to be all or nothing, and if the only other option is that a company can be told what it can or can not include in it's own work then I'm afraid I take the stand that there should be no censorship whatsoever!
Unfortunately it either has to be all or nothing, and if the only other option is that a company can be told what it can or can not include in it's own work then I'm afraid I take the stand that there should be no censorship whatsoever!
We live in a day and age were we blame one thing for the other. This game is evil so lets do evil. Lets ban a game and return the ESRB does what they can with a AO. Whats next every game gets a AO if there is death?
Jim, i just want to say thank you, firstly for writing the email, but for wrting such a fuckig excellent one!
'now if you'll excuse me, I have a game to import.
On principal alone.'
thats beautiful, truley it is. but...
'I can also assure you that this response is
neither a 'general' one nor a cut and paste job.'
sarcasim or sincerity? I can't decied. least they did reply..
'now if you'll excuse me, I have a game to import.
On principal alone.'
thats beautiful, truley it is. but...
'I can also assure you that this response is
neither a 'general' one nor a cut and paste job.'
sarcasim or sincerity? I can't decied. least they did reply..
tazarthayoot what you have to understand is that censorship and banning regardless of the subject matter is a slippery slope...
While you may consider beating children to death with other children's corpses (IN A GAME) who is to tell you not to? Granted this is disgusting and very disturbing...
Granted these types of things should not be available to children and minors, but adults can make their own choices...unless we let things like this ban go without a fight.
While you may consider beating children to death with other children's corpses (IN A GAME) who is to tell you not to? Granted this is disgusting and very disturbing...
Granted these types of things should not be available to children and minors, but adults can make their own choices...unless we let things like this ban go without a fight.
The average age of a gamer is like what 25, thats the MAIN audience of this market.
Its the retarded parents that buy their little 10 yr old Tommy any game he wants for Christmas and then they get mad at the store/game company for letting her kid play the game....wtf, you bought it.
They should just enforce the age thing a little better and their should be no problems. Don't ban the game, that is just an all too easy out, for a simple issue.
Its the retarded parents that buy their little 10 yr old Tommy any game he wants for Christmas and then they get mad at the store/game company for letting her kid play the game....wtf, you bought it.
They should just enforce the age thing a little better and their should be no problems. Don't ban the game, that is just an all too easy out, for a simple issue.
This helps how?
The BFFA didn't provide any more insight as to why this is worse than the first than to say "It's worse than the first game" Ooo!
Also, where's the logic in banning a game anyway? With movies you're talking about a much less expensive proposition where someone can obtain viewing material that they might be deemed too young to see.
Movies are $10, DVD's are $20. If the ability to obtain this offensive material is what's under question there's also far fewer roadblocks to obtaining this material. Porn, liquor, and cigarettes are easier for a kid to come by than a violent video game. Why is that?
The BFFA didn't provide any more insight as to why this is worse than the first than to say "It's worse than the first game" Ooo!
Also, where's the logic in banning a game anyway? With movies you're talking about a much less expensive proposition where someone can obtain viewing material that they might be deemed too young to see.
Movies are $10, DVD's are $20. If the ability to obtain this offensive material is what's under question there's also far fewer roadblocks to obtaining this material. Porn, liquor, and cigarettes are easier for a kid to come by than a violent video game. Why is that?
So if the game is good enough and worthy it will be one of the best torrent games to date. = the end
i'm sorry jim, i agree with you wholeheartedly, but this approach is too heavily laden with grandstanding for the destructoid faithful
Or perhaps every message has that assurance on. Either way, the whole situation is not just pathetic but very biased and unfair taking into account how many torture porn movies have been slipping through lately (think Takashi Miike and all his american rip-off merchants). I don't see how a film like hostel, with NOTHING going for it but a series of dull grisly killings leading towards a few more killings and eventually a train ride (whee!) can be considered any different from a game in which you progress through by killing digitised people. At least these killings look like third-rate last gen violence, compared to unflinchingly real scenes of torture exacted upon 'real' people, projected onto a massive screen for the whooping masses .
Fuck the hypcrisy of the thought police and their ill-judged actions and fuck this stupid, rotting little island I'm forced to live on.
Not that I would have played manhunt 2 mind, the first was dire :)
Fuck the hypcrisy of the thought police and their ill-judged actions and fuck this stupid, rotting little island I'm forced to live on.
Not that I would have played manhunt 2 mind, the first was dire :)
BlueWolf72:
This issue HAS no end until videogames are treated with the same respect and dignity as other artistic mediums.
As I say time and again, this is NOT just about Manhunt 2. This is about videogames. This is also something that which I am in for the very long haul.
This issue HAS no end until videogames are treated with the same respect and dignity as other artistic mediums.
As I say time and again, this is NOT just about Manhunt 2. This is about videogames. This is also something that which I am in for the very long haul.
Excellent email you sent, but we all knew that he wouldn't understand or even attempt to understand your point of view. I hope Rockstar doesn't back down and edit the game just to get an M rating or remove the UK ban. This type of issue needs to go down to bring about some kind of change to the foolishness. Both the BBFC and ESRB have ratings that would be fine for the game and still allow it to be on all store shelves, so why not abide by the very system they came up with? If the game remains Banned/AO, everyone should just buy it from their favorite website to get out a message to the retailers and the raters.
Jim I agree with you but we are in a time and mind frame were that wont happen. Till we gamers decide to do a class action lawsuit vs THE PLANET EARTH you and I are going to see things like this.
Postal movie and game is about to hit the media realms I see the latest version of the postal game headed for the same dilemma
Postal movie and game is about to hit the media realms I see the latest version of the postal game headed for the same dilemma
They are just worried that kids will play the game - which all probably agree is not a good thing. However, to CENSOR material from everyone to 'protect' it from a select few is a scary proposition. Some quote about throwing the baby out with the bathwater might apply here.
The problem here is that the system in place to keep "adult" games out of the hands of children is worthless. Fix that system and you need not ban games for simply being too "adult."
Oh yeah, fuck it, I live in violence happy America, as long as there's not a stray tit in a game we'll be fine.
The problem here is that the system in place to keep "adult" games out of the hands of children is worthless. Fix that system and you need not ban games for simply being too "adult."
Oh yeah, fuck it, I live in violence happy America, as long as there's not a stray tit in a game we'll be fine.
Even if it wasn't a cut-and-paste reply, it definitely was "general," since he basically just stated his position again without responding to any of your concerns and referred to you to information you already knew. I hate corporate replies.
BBFC responds to Destructoid editor regarding Manhunt 2 banning:
"Who the **** is Jim Sterling?
Yours sincerely,
J L Green
Chief Assistant (Policy)"
"Who the **** is Jim Sterling?
Yours sincerely,
J L Green
Chief Assistant (Policy)"
BlueWolf72: I admit I'm idealistic, and that the ambition of games being treated fairly is a long, long way off from becoming true. However, all causes must start SOMEwhere, and if everyone keeps thinking "Well, there's no point because we can't make a difference," then nothing will ever get done.
Right now, our goal is a very achievable one - bring mainstream attention to the other side of the debate. Give us our voice, after having our words taken out of context or outright ignored for decades.
Nobody is yet talking about changing the world. But it's baby steps that make the big steps happen.
Right now, our goal is a very achievable one - bring mainstream attention to the other side of the debate. Give us our voice, after having our words taken out of context or outright ignored for decades.
Nobody is yet talking about changing the world. But it's baby steps that make the big steps happen.
KarmaKing: The BBFC stated that they feel not just kids are at risk this time, but that adults are also not mature enough for Manhunt 2.
that last line of your post wasn't epic enough, i think at least BOLD is in order, maybe up the text size or get a photoshop done. the 300 craze concerning the this is sparta thing hasn't gone completely away.
i smell history in the making.
i smell history in the making.
Here's the plan, Sterling.
Start negotiations with Rockstar to garner a bulk/cost deal for a shit-ton of copies.
Then Inform Richard Branson of the situation and try to convince him to buy 20,000 copies at a dicount.
Then distribute them to your Brittish bretheren. It would be the ultimate "FUCK YOU" to those twits.
Start negotiations with Rockstar to garner a bulk/cost deal for a shit-ton of copies.
Then Inform Richard Branson of the situation and try to convince him to buy 20,000 copies at a dicount.
Then distribute them to your Brittish bretheren. It would be the ultimate "FUCK YOU" to those twits.
"The BBFC has considerable experience in classifying games, and we employ
several highly knowledgeable and experienced gamers as examiners."
I wanna know what kind of gamers they employed here. Any real experienced gamer will be easily used to the kind of violence, even extreme violence that is in these games.
several highly knowledgeable and experienced gamers as examiners."
I wanna know what kind of gamers they employed here. Any real experienced gamer will be easily used to the kind of violence, even extreme violence that is in these games.
3..2... Jack T will be sending out a massive email on how he won
Jim Im glad you did this. ESRB needs a letter to. This game is not AO. The need to be in the news and show they are in charge as Target is using a different company to rate games.
Jim Im glad you did this. ESRB needs a letter to. This game is not AO. The need to be in the news and show they are in charge as Target is using a different company to rate games.
Explaining their policies to us doesn't address the issue of their apparent unfairness. It looks like he's being purposefully vague because they can't come up with a response that won't make them look like the Babysitters' Club.
Perhaps Manhunt 2 just needs Baby Skull Seeking bullets. Sure it sounds evil, but what if there was a gang that killed babies and wore their skulls as a necklace. Then those BSSB bullets would be great instead of deplorable... whats my point there is non I just like to look at the words I type...
Baby Skull Seeking Bullets? I have to give credit where credit is due... Whitest Kids You Know great sketch comedy where they talk to supposed NRA member asking him to defend these new bullets that just came onto the market.
Baby Skull Seeking Bullets? I have to give credit where credit is due... Whitest Kids You Know great sketch comedy where they talk to supposed NRA member asking him to defend these new bullets that just came onto the market.
All this dead children talk reminds me of a joke:
Whats the best way to load a truck with dead babies?
Whats the best way to load a truck with dead babies?
BBFC Gamer heads home from a long day at work, commenting on and cancelling stuff that never sees the light of day in the UK, like Chronotrigger, Super Paper Mario, etc.
BBFC Gamer: Ah, now to play Manhunt 2! I'll just put away my copy of Viva Pinata and my copy of Poniez! for the DS and just snuggle in here for a fun, fancy free night of gaming.
[10 minutes later]
Oh... That's why they banned it. Never mind. Jim, this one's lost to you buddy.
BBFC Gamer: Ah, now to play Manhunt 2! I'll just put away my copy of Viva Pinata and my copy of Poniez! for the DS and just snuggle in here for a fun, fancy free night of gaming.
[10 minutes later]
Oh... That's why they banned it. Never mind. Jim, this one's lost to you buddy.
Id love to create a group "INPUT NAME" that bitch slaps groups and politicians and the BBFC and the ESRB when they make bad judgments.
Kudos to Mr.Green for writing a 4 paragraph long letter that had addressed almost none of the points that you brought up, I couldn't be that much of an asshat if I tried. This letter might as well have been a 'general response' statement as Mr. Green puts it for all the lack of relevance it contains to your original piece. What a dick.
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