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BBFC rejects Manhunt 2 again, Rockstar calls this a 'setback for video games' photo

It is no secret that the world (except for maybe the Netherlands) is not giving Take-Two/Rockstar's Manhunt 2 an easy time. The game's violent content has been beaten to a bloody pulp by the various ratings boards, and this latest news shows that they won't let up until Manhunt 2 is an un unrecognizable, disfigured mess.

Today, the British Board of Film Classification (BBFC) has shut down Rockstar's newest revision to Manhunt 2, essentially banning it, despite changes made in efforts to clear it for UK release.

"We recognise that the distributor has made changes to the game, but we do not consider that these go far enough to address our concerns about the original version," offered David Cooke, director of the BBFC.

Cooke goes on to explain that while they notice that some visual aspects have changed, others still "retain their original visceral and casually sadistic nature," and they felt that "the bleakness and callousness of tone" of the game has not changed enough. 

Hit the jump to see what Rockstar had to say about all of this. 

From Rockstar:

"We are continuing to appeal the British Board of Film Classification's decision to deny the edited version of Manhunt 2 an 18-plus certificate and thereby ban its release in the United Kingdom."

"The changes necessary in order to publish the game in Britain are unacceptable to us and represent a setback for video games."

"The BBFC allows adults the freedom to decide for themselves when it comes to horror in movies and we think adults should be similarly allowed to decide for themselves when it comes to horror in video games, such as Manhunt 2."

Normally, we'd love to get our word in, but it looks like Rockstar's response nailed it. Live-action horror movies are permitted to go basically uncensored, but video games are still locked down so tightly that creativity is restricted. This truly is a setback for video games.

It doesn't look like Rockstar has any plans of giving on up Manhunt 2. Let's hope that they don't have to resort to toning down the game any more than they already have.

[via Gamesindustry.biz


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34 comments | showing # 1 to 34

king3vbo's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 11:25
king3vbo
I said it before, I'll say it again... WTF is up with the BBFC? Theres nothing lamer than censorship... and they must think that adults cant make up their own goddamned minds
king3vbo's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 11:26
king3vbo
oops.. I meant that they cant decide for themselves whats acceptable and whats not. If the consumer deems it unacceptable, THEN DONT FUCKING BUY IT. Simple enough
Alaphic's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 11:32
Alaphic
People aren't allowed to be responsible for themselves anymore. They obviously aren't mentally equipped to make their own decisions.

Didn't you get the memo?
jeep's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 11:38
jeep
could care less...i live in the land of the somewhat getting less and less free (america)...which means i can go walk into my local game shop and decide not to pick this game up like the adult that i am...just not my tastes
Clockwork's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 11:38
Clockwork
I'll be honest, when I first saw gameplay for Manhunt 2 and I saw those bloody executions, my jaw dropped. I was shocked because I knew it was gonna be violent, but not as extreme as that shit. But hey, I'D PLAY IT.
brad drac's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 11:43
brad drac
This is fucked up and wrong. Taking a decision as to whether a piece of entertainment is acceptable or not completely out of people's hands is a real affront to all kinds of shit. The bbfc should be banned.
nademagnet's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 11:49
nademagnet
I say WE PIRATE IT! ARRRRR!
Necros's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 11:49
Necros
Somehow, I saw this coming. Call it a hunch.

So what are the chances of this appeal actually helping them get the game on store shelves?
vexed alex's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 11:52
vexed alex
So we all call this censorship bullshit?
PSIq0ut's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 11:52
PSIq0ut
fucks sake, I'm so sick of this big brother attitude by the BBFC. THEY'RE RUINING THE CREATIVE ARTS INDUSTRY.
BS3 Owner's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 12:03
BS3 Owner
What about "The Darkness" letting you eat hearts. Especially out of Police Men. ooohh That's right it was allowed into the Kingdom & Rated M no less...

I'll tell you what got this sequel into trouble. The Outrage that was the first edition in the fanchise. It set a unsavory to some precidence...

Just like... You guessed it GTA & it's beef all around the globe w/ Law Enforcement. No one that has beef w/ something likes to see it spawned over & over.
Variable Gear's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 12:12
Variable Gear
Basically all Rockstar did is filter the visuals when you get a kill, so I am not surprised that the BBFC passed on the game again. I agree that we can decide for ourselves what we play and that the platform holders should allow AO-rated games to be released for their systems, and once the people installed in all the required levels of society grew up with games it will happen (I hope).
afrazkhan's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 12:25
afrazkhan
""the bleakness and callousness of tone" of the game has not changed enough"

Can you imagine someone saying that about Nineteen-Eighty-Four? Books are arguably more immersible than video games.

As a thinking adult I excercised the judgement that the BBFC for some reason think I'm lacking, and decided against playing this game when I first heard about it (before all this B.S.). Others may decide they do want to play it, and as long as they're thinking about it first too, then I don't see where the BBFC comes into the picture.

We only need things like the BBFC for a society of morons, unable to think for themselves. The BBFC has therefore shown it's contempt for this societies judgement.
JonDarkwood's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 12:34
JonDarkwood
Sorry guys, video games are still toys for children.

I can't wait until the technology-ignorant people of the world are too old to do their jobs and people who understand the medium of video games can take their jobs. In return I fully expect future generations to feel the same way about me.
Roody's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 12:35
Roody
I think there's a difference between maturity and depravity.

Honestly, am I the only one who thinks that Manhunt is hurting the games industry more than helping it? I realize we're all for this "free speech" thing which is awesome and all, but really, can't we draw a line somewhere? Without boundaries people will create some of the most depraved and disgusting crap I've ever seen. People constantly compare these types of games to Saw and other horror movies (which IMO are horrible excuses for movies that should've never been released) and I find it horrible that people enjoy movies like that. I'm not saying every single game should be MariohappyflowerpowerKatamari whatever, and I don't mind violent games, but there comes a point where it's blood and shock factor for the blood and shock factor.
Holiday's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 12:36
Holiday
Let's face it, video games are a business like any other. If there are no controls or checks placed upon the video game industry then game developers and publishers will put out any sort of vile crap to make a buck. Now, Manhunt 2 as a whole is not banned completely (except in certain contries ATM) it's just stuck with an A rating. So the game gets an "A" rating, so you can't buy it at your local Walmart, so what? You wouldn't buy your XXX bukkake porn at Walmart either. If Manhunt 2 turns you on you'll make the trip to the few special stores that carry it or buy it online.

Really it's not even worth arguing about. Manhunt 2 isn't art, the game doesn't deserve defending.
DerfelCadarn's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 12:56
DerfelCadarn
@Holiday:

Actually, there's a bit more to it than that. If a game receives an AO rating, the console manufacturers will not allow the game to run on their respective systems, effectively banning it. Only a PC version would have a chance of seeing the market under those conditions.

While it is unfortunate that such debate has been spawned over Manhunt 2, a game likely to have only limited commercial and critical impact, it is indeed a debate that is relevant. Personally, I think it is fine for a workable Adults Only rating to exist, but this would require the chance for such games to actually be released to the market. In the current state of things, it is a useless rating that only means that the game can never be released. What purpose does that serve?
plkrtn's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 13:29
plkrtn
If you think the BBFC are bad now, they are nothing compared to 15 years ago. They are much better now, and rarely if ever ban something for its contents. Personally, I found Manhunt a step too far, violence for violence's sake, without really having a morale narrative, good or bad for either of them. Compare it to such things that have recently been taken off the BBFC ban list such as Driller Killer, and Straw Dogs. They both have meaningful narratives even though the films contain violence for violence sake. Manhunt 1 did not, and I can't see how Manhunt 2 would do the same. I didn't want this game before it was banned, and I don't want it now, it doesn't bother me in the slightest, and I'm sure the BBFC are doing the right thing.
deanhatescoffee's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 13:30
deanhatescoffee
I still think it'd be really interesting if Rockstar open-sourced Manhunt 2. The question then becomes, does Rockstar have enough in the bank to get by without making any money off of this game? If it continues to be rejected, what would they really lose by making such a move? More importantly, what would they gain?
WDot's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 13:37
WDot
I think I agree with Roody. Again, no problem with free speech, but if we're all trying to push a "games are art" argument, Rockstar and Manhunt 2 shouldn't be our spokesmen. That would be like using the makers of Tubgirl to defend erotica as art--It will probably hurt us more than help us.

Say the BBFC backs down and gives Manhunt 2 the green light. What victory will we have achieved? Rockstar will be able to finally make some money back. However, parents and art critics and politicians and everyone else will still think that video games are for children and that Rockstar is depraved for marketing this to children (their words, not mine).

Considering there are so many M-rated games that get on by without any controversy, I think this is more a case of Rockstar's tactic of inciting controversy to move games biting them in the ass.

@afrazkhan Yeah, some parts of 1984 were chilling, especially the rat torture. That book taught me that I guess I wasn't imperturbable. =p
Im OK's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 13:48
Im OK
@jeep

could care less

It's nice to see that you do care, at least somewhat.

Anyway, I'm still counting the days until all of these old, prudish, clueless farts currently in positions of power finally kick off. They just need to make a new higher "we really really really don't think you should be playing this game" rating, and let it go. If people agree, they won't buy it. Don't just sit on a fucking high horse and make decisions like this for people.
BluFire's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 14:02
BluFire
I'm still not buying that game anyway; it's frickin' creepy. Plus, horror movies scare the shit out of me - I wouldn't fare too well in an interactive horror movie.
Sharpless's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 14:42
Sharpless
I suddenly care a lot less about this, since Rockstar whined about the Simpsons' in-game parody of GTA. Jackasses.
CaffeinePowered's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 14:44
CaffeinePowered
Gentlemen, fire up your illegal imports, Ill gladly pack and ship a copy overseas
A New Challenger's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 14:47
A New Challenger
@ Roody:

The game may indeed be crap, and depravity for depravity's sake, but the issue is whether the government should be able to step in and effectively ban entertainment when no harm was done in the process of creating it (unlike, say, snuff films or child porn.) I'm in the US, and thus ignorant of the pertinent UK law and precedent and community standards, so it's tricky to discuss the issue in full. Any attempt at regulating the sale of games here has been struck down by the courts, and regulating the actual content of games would almost certainly violate the first amendment. There've always been whispers of federal regulation, but it isn't going to happen any time soon.

Then again, there's the case of Mike Diana, who was forbidden from even drawing anything at all.
Velt's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 14:51
Velt
The point is not the violence in the game, and either if you would buy it or not anyway.

The point is that they are saying like a big brother what you can and what you cannot play. And i dont know about you guys, but that pisses me off a lot. Im an adult, maybe im an asshole, who cares, i dont, but if i want to play the fu***** game is my decision, not some shitty christian stupid fu****** moralist that believes he is better than you.

You always have to defend the freedom in every aspect of your life.
verkon's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 15:15
verkon
ESRB and BBFC ruined what could be manhunt, thank god for the PEGI system.
Would have been released in scandinavia with just an 18+ rating.
Just hoping that no more heroes doesn't suffer the same fate.
Bryan-'s Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 16:58
Bryan-
I know you freaks want to totally immerse yourselves in the game with the Wiimote, but if you want to play Manhunt 2 that bad, you can... acquire the leaked PS2 version that is uncut.

You didn't hear it from me! I just wish I had a modded PS2.
Cowboy TTop's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 17:33
Cowboy TTop
Well us U.K folks can still import a copy from Holland or France. Since our games have multiple languages, that's a good idea or anywhere that sells PAL games.

I do find this ban quite annoying, because what the BBFC don't release they are doing is holding the games industry back creatively. This is why we still need a rating system branch of the BBFC that understand games, because those rating our games now don't or treat them fairly either.

While some say Manhunt is sick, so is American Psycho as a book or Saw as a movie, but they are still on sale for adults to make up their mind. Behind all this is the falsely built perception that only kids play games, when gamers are aging all the time. Perhaps we should ask the BBFC who plays games and see what they say. They'll say they want to protect kids probabaly. Only adult accepted games in the games industry will break this perception, so Nintendo, Sony and MS need to readdress this situation. Stonewalling isnt acceptable anymore.

Never mind, those resourceful gamers out there (myself included) will still get their hands on a copy somehow. I just have more important games to buy right now.

Hey PS2 owners, get a Swap Magic PAL and a US copy of Manhunt, and stick it to the man. Sony don't care about PS2 or us anymore anyway.
Jetsetlemming's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 17:35
Jetsetlemming
Rockstar should tell the ESRB and BFCC to go fuck themselves, release a console version only in the countries that haven't banned it (with heavy releases there to encourage exporting), and a worldwide PC release via digital distribution.
SubOrbital's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 18:17
SubOrbital
If I wasn't still pissed at Rockstar for being hypocritical pussies for not allowing the Simpsons game to have a stage based on GTA, I'd probably be upset about this news. As it is, I think Rockstar need a healthy dose of humble pie.
Mxyzptlk's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 18:45
Mxyzptlk
This is why we should have nuked Britain back in WWII. We were fighting against them, right?
Im OK's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 19:41
Im OK
@SubOrbital

While I agree that Rockstar needs a nice big piece of humble pie over the Simpsons thing, I don't think that it should be served to them via this issue.
Raidensolid's Avatar - Comment posted on 10/08/2007 21:00
Raidensolid
So heres the situation. Will this effect release dates in the U.S and Canada? And also, anyone want a copy of Manhunt 2 in the U.K or Netherlands, message me and i'll be more than happy to send you a copy. I accept Money orders, and personal cheques since my paypal account is null at the moment. :D anything i can do for fellow gamers.
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