[Note: This post originally had the line" 'All Women are scary'. Wow.' " right after Kamiya-san's quote. A few readers pointed out that they thought it looked like I was trying to misquote Kamiya-san (which was not my intention), so I've taken that part out. Sorry for the confusion.]
Shortly after Bayonetta was released, I started seeing a bunch of articles and blogs pop up stating that Bayonetta was an awesome feminist role model; a powerful woman who was comfortable using her sexuality to get what she wanted. That came as a surprise to me. In my opinion, any character that reinforces the idea that women need to self-objectify in order to get what they want isn't doing much for feminism.
Not coincidentally, Hideki Kamiya, the creator of Bayonetta doesn't seem much for feminism either. When asked about his favorite Bayonetta moment, he said -
Well, if I had to pick one, I would say it is the scene where Joy first appears in the game, with Bayonetta and her impostor getting into a pose battle. That was my way of expressing the feminine notion that, to one woman, all other women are enemies. Even women walking by each other will check out what the other is wearing, and might smolder a bit with antagonism. Women are scary.
I'm happy if some of you out there have gained a sense of empowerment and ownership of your own bodies by looking up to Bayonetta, but I still feel like that interpretation of the character is a bit skewed. To me, she's an empty shell of a character; a shell made from here creators' sexual fantasies, negative stereotypes, and misconceived notions of the female gender. If she were a guy, then at least she'd be playing against type, but as it stands, I think she's a step backwards for the depiction of women in videogames.
X-rated Bayonetta scene is creator's favourite [CVG]
Contest:
1:00 PM on 01.11.2011 | 
But Kamiya is dead on right saying women are scary....they're like fucking vultures.
I was almost killed by a nipple once. trufax
I liked her precisely because she's not a shell. She has emotion and development. If you can't see beyond her body, that's not a problem with her character, it's a problem with you.
Apparently Metroid: Other M is sexist (see my Musing blog), but this is fine?
To be fair, I don't really have a problem with Bayonetta for the sexism...okay, that will need an explanation.
I think it's just so overdone in Bayonetta that it's almost impossible to get offended by it. It's such a sexualized game that it is almost played for laughs, you can barely take it seriously.
To me, it's kind of like the other Platinum game, Madworld. That was really violent, so violent in fact, that it wrapped all the way back into hilarious.
I could see how some women might get offended by it though.
This is pretty true from what I've seen at least.
I'm a pretty sociable guy and whenever I take a girl out to a restaurant or something and start having a conversation and joke with the waitress they just tend to go silent and act miserable.
And forget about having any good friends that are girls in a relationship, thats when shit can get real catty lol.
And yes, women can be very scary when other women are concerned.
"OMG, she's TOO sexy!" Cry me a river of molten lava, and then jump into it.
She's not really feminist, but she does exemplify a ridiculous over the topness to that kind of vogue sexualized strong heroine, much in the same way Dante is the showboating brute force "douche" hero.
They're both fun to watch, but I wouldn't want to hang out with either of them =P
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Ok, maybe I'd go dancing with Bayonetta a lil bit on her off day~ No guns though =3
But are you telling me that you really believe that Bayonetta doesn't act the way she does "for the guys", and that she constantly spreads her legs and moans "for herself"?
Why exactly would someone act like that "for themselves?" Doesn't it make more sense to think that she's acting that way "for the guys" that she is hoping will buy her game?
They know what they're doing the whole time, and it's apparent to me the intention was to show that particular female's ability to outwit the male gender. That's how I see Bayonetta.
See! They're so heartless T~T they won't even let us have opinions! Damn women...;D
if you have any IRL witches or half demons handy for a comparison then perhaps you might have the opportunity to make a point.
My sister is at this very moment listening to a Kesha song, 'Grow a Pair', and I can hear it from her room. You were not evil, but that was suspiciously creepy. Watch it, I may be on to you...
But I agree fully though :P
"f you have any IRL witches or half demons handy for a comparison then perhaps you might have the opportunity to make a point."
HEY, MOM? COULD YOU COME HERE FOR A SEC....
Because she's not on the Wii, right?
So how do you feel about Duke Nukem, then? Because Bayonetta is essentially just a female version.
However, to my mind, in any case where the agency of a female character is tied explicitly in some way to her employment sexuality it emerges as a symptom of the patriarchal structure of video game culture, or, indeed, society at large. This sort of agency, even if presented under the guise of self-motivation, is predicated of the values inherent to a male hegemony.
I'm with Holmes in thinking that necessitating any female character's self-objectification is a way or erecting an illusory veil of supposed feminist independence while tacitly reinforcing the misogyny rippling still under the surface of culture at large and video game culture in particular; more irresponsible than depicting women in an over-sexualized manner is the dangerous positing of it as some sort of radical feminist act.
Srsly, r u guys just trying to be funny? If not, then ur pretty pathetic critters...
I think the same is true for Duke Nuke'em. Not an interesting character at all. Very dull, and does nothing to push the depiction of males forward in videogames.
@GEMPadre036
"this also falls to the gaming community, which unfortunately not only supports but embraces this sort of inequality"
Let me stop you right there. Both genders are inaccurately represented in video games, and honestly I wouldn't have it any other way. I enjoy video games precisely because in real life, I'm not some muscle bound space marine who get's the girl with the tiny waist and big boobs. That's what makes video games fun. Sure there is room for realistic portrayals of men and women in video games, just look at Heavy Rain for instance. However, claiming that all video games need to be like this is ludicrous. As is claiming that only women are objectified in games.
I mean, just because the school girl outfit fetish objectifies women - doesn't mean there aren't schools that have dress codes. Just because a video game character likes loli-pops doesn't mean it is straight up objectification. And as far as role models go, Bayonetta isn't one and neither is Duke Nukem. Where is the problem? I don't see a step backwards.
I mean a possible negative connotation of women would be that they are all sweet, defenseless and reliant on men for protection.
However, Bayonetta isn't another innocent princess to be rescued, not a defenseless woman the player needs to escort through a level, or a white mage restricted mostly to healing. Bayonetta is a rose with thorns, and a testament to what women could be if they so chose (if they have gun-boots, witch powers, and long hair; each could be metaphors to things women already posses).
Of course they're not pushing the boundaries of feminism. I think you're looking in the wrong place, there are far more interesting female characters that do just that.
I think it’s ridiculous there aren’t more women like Bayonetta in games, confident women who kick the shit out of everything on the screen, you know, like 80% of male protagonists.
I also think that last line “Women are scary” was said jokingly and you’re taking it a bit too seriously.
(I’m not having a go, this just sounds way angrier than I actually am.)
"I think the same is true for Duke Nuke'em. Not an interesting character at all. Very dull, and does nothing to push the depiction of males forward in videogames."
i think you're missing the point in a big way. these characters are not meant to be realistic depictions of normal, responsible people, in fact they are almost total parodies, and not intended to be taken seriously. while you may be correct in saying so, duke nukem was never meant to "push the depiction of males forward in videogames", he was meant to be a crude badass based on other crude badasses from hollywood.
when you start getting all preachy borderline white knight over something like this it's time to STFUAJPG and i shouldn't have to say that to a dtoid editor.
Holmes and many other video game journalist commit a big crime when this topic is brought up: Assuming women have no sexual drive what-so-ever. You don't want women to be treated like objects, so you treat them like their not human, yeah that's better. Beyonetta is sexy and kicks ass! Women want to fuck just as much as guys....They just don't advertise it.
I think the people that might be missing the point are the ones that do see both those characters as role models.
Do you anyone who takes Bayonetta as a role model? You're talking out of your ass now.
"all your really saying is, "I'm a privileged straight male who likes getting off on game characters and I don't see why sexism in media is wrong.""
No, all I'm saying is, the media is equally sexist towards both genders, therefore it's not all that sexist at all. You need to learn the difference between fantasy and reality. There is nothing wrong with fantastical depictions of men and women, nothing at all.
im not gonna argue or make a long post about how bayonetta was a great example of a strong positive female lead (as compared to other modern day examples twilight every action being for a man)
The game was over the top but in all the right ways, is ll i have to say because everything else has been said above.
On the other hand, what do you think advances the depiction of women? Would you hide all of a woman's sexual traits? Taking that idea to the extreme that can be oppressive of women all by itself. I can think of a few Islamic sects that do that for example.
I guess it comes down to this - How would you define the perfect example of a woman who advances the depiction of women in video games?
you could easily read your article and think otherwise, you don't state bayonetta was intended as a role model, and i wouldn't accuse you of that, but when it's clear that the developers intended exaggeration and parody, and the audience recieved it as such, it's hard to agree with statements such as:
"[bayonetta] reinforces the idea that women need to self-objectify"
"[bayonetta is] a shell made from here [sic] creators' sexual fantasies, negative stereotypes, and misconceived notions of the female gender"
ALSO: notice the typo, congrats on the sterling-esque semi troll posting of late, cocks etc.
Some of them are even commenting in this post.