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i agree with wat most of u r sayin. it would be cool if it didnt have the bk logo on it. they should cater to thier fans in this instance, but i also agree wit wat jim said. maybe if fans were more loyal to thier companies we wouldnt see these change-for-the-worse games. if they make a sequel that is similar to the other games, dont tear them apart for it.
I like the game's concept, but I personally think a different franchise would better fit the game. Like Lego or something.
I'm sure it'll be awesome, but I don't know if it'll have the same Banjo feel. But if you'll notice, this is "Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts", not "Banjo-Threeie". Spin-off maybe?
I'm sure it'll be awesome, but I don't know if it'll have the same Banjo feel. But if you'll notice, this is "Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts", not "Banjo-Threeie". Spin-off maybe?
fans are loyal to the companies.. we buy the games to support their works but when you totally throw out something we love were going to get pissed... and i cant stand rare. yeah im probably going to buy this game because they said they are keeping some of the elements from the old ones like my man mumbo jumbo! but all in all im pissed
@Boolean
But it's not a racing game (though I'm sure it will have some races in it). The way I read it (from the videos) it IS a platformer except you're platforming WITH vehicles (that you can dynamically change for the situation) instead of walking around and platforming/exploring. Personally, I think that's a pretty cool idea.
Plus it's not like this game is called Banjo 3 so why is everyone so mad that it's even in the universe?
But it's not a racing game (though I'm sure it will have some races in it). The way I read it (from the videos) it IS a platformer except you're platforming WITH vehicles (that you can dynamically change for the situation) instead of walking around and platforming/exploring. Personally, I think that's a pretty cool idea.
Plus it's not like this game is called Banjo 3 so why is everyone so mad that it's even in the universe?
I'm really excited for this next evolution of platforming (which is what Gregg Mayles specifically called it in the interview). Giving players more than ~12 abilities to solve problems via nearly limitless tools is exactly the way to do it.
From what I can tell, the game will still have the same spirit, but the mechanics are now expanded upon exponentially. Instead of using a bird-flip to reach nearly all higher elevations, we can utilize vehicles' unique components any way we'd like.
@PIC2021 - For someone in college, you sure sound a lot more like I did when the BK games first came out. If you want to think the game was all about running around on a bird, then you might not even be capable of understanding the mechanics that are being introduced. I always thought it was about overcoming obstacles with a growing set of abilities throughout the game. That seems exactly like what we see here.
From what I can tell, the game will still have the same spirit, but the mechanics are now expanded upon exponentially. Instead of using a bird-flip to reach nearly all higher elevations, we can utilize vehicles' unique components any way we'd like.
@PIC2021 - For someone in college, you sure sound a lot more like I did when the BK games first came out. If you want to think the game was all about running around on a bird, then you might not even be capable of understanding the mechanics that are being introduced. I always thought it was about overcoming obstacles with a growing set of abilities throughout the game. That seems exactly like what we see here.
I agree 100% with King, but the more time that passes, the more I calm down about it and accept what Rare is offering us here. I mean, those guys made a pinata breeding simulation work, so this has a good shot of working. It looks pretty fun, so I'm going to give it a chance.. but still think back to what could have been every now and then.
What really worries me, is Kazooie. It bugs me that we hardly see her pop outta the backpack during the gameplay we've been shown. She was always my favorite character of the duo, and now that Banjo relies mostly on vehicles, what role will she play? Besides wielding that huge laser gun thingy, anyway..
What really worries me, is Kazooie. It bugs me that we hardly see her pop outta the backpack during the gameplay we've been shown. She was always my favorite character of the duo, and now that Banjo relies mostly on vehicles, what role will she play? Besides wielding that huge laser gun thingy, anyway..
The fact is, this game doesn't look good..... Hours of replayabilty !=being able to put 2 guns on your boat or 5 guns in different places on your boat....
"If it looked like a good game? I would like it for sure. What the fuck does it matter whether it's part of the Fallout franchise if the game is good?"
Because that means Fallout 3 the adventure game people were hoping for might not happen for another 4-5 years, if ever. This could be the best game ever released on a console, but just as Fallout Cooking Adventures might be the best game ever made, it's not what a lot of people wanted...they wanted Fallout 3. It's like waiting in line for Mass Effect for 2 days, then when you get there the clerk hands you GTA IV, then when you say "This isn't what I wanted" his excuse is "But it's a good game, a BETTER game, what the fucks your problem?". The simple answer is, it’s not what people were expecting and its unfair to call them a cunt over that.
As a person who has hardly played the games it does not really bother me one way or the other, all I’m saying is I understand why people are pissed.
Because that means Fallout 3 the adventure game people were hoping for might not happen for another 4-5 years, if ever. This could be the best game ever released on a console, but just as Fallout Cooking Adventures might be the best game ever made, it's not what a lot of people wanted...they wanted Fallout 3. It's like waiting in line for Mass Effect for 2 days, then when you get there the clerk hands you GTA IV, then when you say "This isn't what I wanted" his excuse is "But it's a good game, a BETTER game, what the fucks your problem?". The simple answer is, it’s not what people were expecting and its unfair to call them a cunt over that.
As a person who has hardly played the games it does not really bother me one way or the other, all I’m saying is I understand why people are pissed.
@PIC2021 - So, your "man mumbo jumbo!" is a gameplay element?
I thought he was a character. His in-game abilities which transformed Banjo and Kazooie into other beings seems a lot like the entire focus of this new evolved platforming....
Hmmm... it seems ironic that you're such a fan of Mumbo Jumbo, yet against the new style of platforming.
I thought he was a character. His in-game abilities which transformed Banjo and Kazooie into other beings seems a lot like the entire focus of this new evolved platforming....
Hmmm... it seems ironic that you're such a fan of Mumbo Jumbo, yet against the new style of platforming.
"We made another banjo game but found it tedious so we tried this idea with banjo."
How can that quote be construed as anything but good? They tried another traditional game, but it was tedious. They did not want to release a tedious game, so they tried a different approach. How is that bad?
How can that quote be construed as anything but good? They tried another traditional game, but it was tedious. They did not want to release a tedious game, so they tried a different approach. How is that bad?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I'M POINTING AND LAUGHING AT ALL YOU SAD BASTARDS. JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT.
Yeah, I've honestly never given a shit about Banjo-Kazooie. Quit your bitching, you little pussies. If Boom Blox can turn out okay, so can this. Come over here, so I can slap you around a little.
I'm gonna make such a great father.
Yeah, I've honestly never given a shit about Banjo-Kazooie. Quit your bitching, you little pussies. If Boom Blox can turn out okay, so can this. Come over here, so I can slap you around a little.
I'm gonna make such a great father.
@REAPRAR - Quote:
"[...]this new game looks like it's been shaken so violently that they're crossing into another genre."
I have to disagree. If you had read the [url="http://www.rarewitchproject.com/?id=1655"]linked interview with Gregg Mayles[/url], you'd hear him explain that the core platforming elements of the game are still there. They've been evolved, not replaced.
The game still focuses on overcoming unique obstacles with (now equally unique) solutions.
Sounds a lot like platforming and Banjo-Kazooie games to me.
"[...]this new game looks like it's been shaken so violently that they're crossing into another genre."
I have to disagree. If you had read the [url="http://www.rarewitchproject.com/?id=1655"]linked interview with Gregg Mayles[/url], you'd hear him explain that the core platforming elements of the game are still there. They've been evolved, not replaced.
The game still focuses on overcoming unique obstacles with (now equally unique) solutions.
Sounds a lot like platforming and Banjo-Kazooie games to me.
Arttemis... uhhhhhhhhhhh i was just mentioning one aspect of the game... banjo kazooie is the best n64 game i have played.. i acutally like it more than mario. banjo kazooie teaches you how to use your mind and how to solve many challenges.yeah this third one has those in it too but i dont need all these vehicles to play. in the intervirew he even said yeah you can run around to get to your objectives but that will be pointless because it will take you so long.... thatdoesnt matter to me i want to run around. i feel they should cancel this game and start over... they messed up before the game even came out... *sigh
@ARTTEMIS: Sigh, quotes inside url tag FTL.
"[...]linked interview with Gregg Mayles[...]"
"[...]linked interview with Gregg Mayles[...]"
Arttemis... i guess you didnt read the interview did you?? yeah in this new game mumbo is a car salesman... woah he is transforming you into stuff now isnt he.. and axctually he is a gaming element... as you just stated he transforms you into different characters... right there is a game element because you use that to complete challenges... now with vehicles that fly and stuff mumbo doesnt need to transform us... so its sad.
"but pretending they arent trying to make a quick buck off of old banjo fans is, I'd rather they just say it how it is, they thought of this really good idea, and put banjo in it so it'd sell more."
It's a matter of perception. You assume Rare put BK in the idea, I assume Rare put the idea into BK.
It's a matter of perception. You assume Rare put BK in the idea, I assume Rare put the idea into BK.
Well this is seriously lame, not that i'm "afraid of change", but there is a reason why gamers love franchises and sequels; it's because they love to play more of what they played before. They loved the game play and the characters and what to see it again with whole new levels, abilities, story and so forth; hell the biggest disappoint can be "i wish the game was longer". You take what worked before and add heavily to it, you don't change things completly With the franchises main games, you take what worked before and add on to it and make it better; this is how many of nintendo's and other really strong franchises have stayed great for so long... the only time you do something drastically different is when you make spin offs from the main game, or when you realize that fans have really gotten tired of the old formula (which they generally don't for many games)
Had they just made a NEW game, fans would not be up in arms about this. I mean they could have so easily made a new game, with new characters, with the same tone and feel as BK, but made the focus on building stuff and driving around... They game would have sold on it's own merits... instead their attaching BK to it in order to take advantage of a fan base that's been wanting a new game for years, and all it's really doing is alienating them...
as for the game itself... i think how much i will like it depends on how long it takes to build stuff... i'm thinking gummi ships when i see those veichles... and when it came to kingdom hearts i did kinda like the gummi ship as a side feature... thing is though, i still played kingdom hearts for everything else, and when it came to the gummi ship, i just used it to make ONE really good ship; not sure if i would enjoy make a dozen or so vehicles... the creation time can get tiresome
Had they just made a NEW game, fans would not be up in arms about this. I mean they could have so easily made a new game, with new characters, with the same tone and feel as BK, but made the focus on building stuff and driving around... They game would have sold on it's own merits... instead their attaching BK to it in order to take advantage of a fan base that's been wanting a new game for years, and all it's really doing is alienating them...
as for the game itself... i think how much i will like it depends on how long it takes to build stuff... i'm thinking gummi ships when i see those veichles... and when it came to kingdom hearts i did kinda like the gummi ship as a side feature... thing is though, i still played kingdom hearts for everything else, and when it came to the gummi ship, i just used it to make ONE really good ship; not sure if i would enjoy make a dozen or so vehicles... the creation time can get tiresome
@PIC2021 - Uhhhhhh!?
First, I never questioned the quality of the first games. I've always thought it was far superior to Mario 64. That wasn't even debated in my comments. WTF?
What's even more ridiculous is that you can't realize that giving the player more tools to do the exact same thing as in the previous titles which is to "use your mind and how to solve many challenges" isn't destroying the style of gameplay. Do you not think you'll be using your mind to solve many challenges in this third game? It seems like you'll have to be doing even more of that since we're given so many unique tools.
First, I never questioned the quality of the first games. I've always thought it was far superior to Mario 64. That wasn't even debated in my comments. WTF?
What's even more ridiculous is that you can't realize that giving the player more tools to do the exact same thing as in the previous titles which is to "use your mind and how to solve many challenges" isn't destroying the style of gameplay. Do you not think you'll be using your mind to solve many challenges in this third game? It seems like you'll have to be doing even more of that since we're given so many unique tools.
@PIC2021 - My god, man; of course I read the interview.
You completely missed my point. Mumbo Jumbo is a character that granted the player transformations to accomplish unique obstacles in the previous games. If you had read the interview, you'd have see Gregg's explanation of the vehicles being designed with that specifically in mind --- as an evolution to that mechanic. To think that it has to be character specific is just ignorant.
Just because Mumbo Jumbo is no longer going to be performing the transformations, doesn't mean that gameplay element is no longer there.
You completely missed my point. Mumbo Jumbo is a character that granted the player transformations to accomplish unique obstacles in the previous games. If you had read the interview, you'd have see Gregg's explanation of the vehicles being designed with that specifically in mind --- as an evolution to that mechanic. To think that it has to be character specific is just ignorant.
Just because Mumbo Jumbo is no longer going to be performing the transformations, doesn't mean that gameplay element is no longer there.
you will have to use your mind in this game! all im saying is i do not want to build a vehicle to do things.. i want to run around as banjo kazooie and not play another driving game.. i hate driving games.. they ar3e not fun in any way.. as soon as i saw the pictures come and come of the leaked pictures my heart dropped and i cant believe my favorite franchise is going down the drain. Arttemis im done fighting with you because theres no reason to.. just rare should get rid of this dumb idea and start over :/
shit you guys are still going at it? Look, I can see why you would not be happy with this new direction, and I can understand where you're coming from in thinking this was a "idea first, character later" type of thing.
But none of that changes the fact that this is what we're getting. You wanted Banjo, you're going to get him. It's Rare's game and character and as far as I'm concerned, they can do what they please. While they could have made a platformer, do you really think anyone is surpassing Mario Galaxy in that genre? It would be silly to go up against that type of game. Rare decided to try something new and perhaps create their own sub-genre.
I would love a pure platforming Banjo, but when I think about it, it would be the same game as the old ones, which I tired of near the end of the sequel. It just gets old, and they really don't have any hope of setting a standard in the genre, seeing as how SMG already did that and there is no way Rare could beat Nintendo at their own game.
Besides that, the genre is limiting.
They tried something new both because they had balls and because they were afraid of failure. They don't want another "Perfect Dark" debacle about how the game does nothing new but looks really pretty.
Either way, it's one fucking game out of hundreds. Calm down.
But none of that changes the fact that this is what we're getting. You wanted Banjo, you're going to get him. It's Rare's game and character and as far as I'm concerned, they can do what they please. While they could have made a platformer, do you really think anyone is surpassing Mario Galaxy in that genre? It would be silly to go up against that type of game. Rare decided to try something new and perhaps create their own sub-genre.
I would love a pure platforming Banjo, but when I think about it, it would be the same game as the old ones, which I tired of near the end of the sequel. It just gets old, and they really don't have any hope of setting a standard in the genre, seeing as how SMG already did that and there is no way Rare could beat Nintendo at their own game.
Besides that, the genre is limiting.
They tried something new both because they had balls and because they were afraid of failure. They don't want another "Perfect Dark" debacle about how the game does nothing new but looks really pretty.
Either way, it's one fucking game out of hundreds. Calm down.
I'm still thinking this will be the Mario Sunshine of the Banjo-Kazooie series. They go in some weird, unexpected direction that most fans don't like, and it ends up being less fun than the older games because of it. Then they'll go back to straight up platforming.
I think they should have made this a "Diddy Kong Racing" adventure spin-off. At least that game had driving cars, flying planes, and driving watercraft as its main focus. They could have made Banjo into Timba or Tiptup, made Mumbo into that elephant guy or T.T., turned Grunty into Wizpig. Done. Still uses old, nostalgic characters and doesn't fuck with Banjo-Kazooie. Problem solved.
And everyone keeps arguing "Good for Rare! They're evolving the genre!" ...By removing almost everything fans loved about the old games? Why? They can innovate in plenty of other ways. I know some people here seem to think otherwise (for reasons beyond me), but Mario Galaxy is a great example. They took the core gameplay the fans of the series love and turned it on its head. And look, it turned out great!
What they did with Nuts & Bolts is stripped away the transformations, Kazooie's moves, and the platforming level design, stuck on vehicle building, and made everything flat to accommodate for the driving. They changed so much that it barely even resembles what it used to be. THAT is my problem with this game.
Plus the fucking X06 Banjo-Kazooie teaser suggested it was going to be more of the same. Showing Banjo using Kazooie as a jackhammer and showing honeycombs, which as far as I can tell aren't even IN the game. It was misleading and probably caused a lot of this drama. They could have at least hinted it would be different.
I think they should have made this a "Diddy Kong Racing" adventure spin-off. At least that game had driving cars, flying planes, and driving watercraft as its main focus. They could have made Banjo into Timba or Tiptup, made Mumbo into that elephant guy or T.T., turned Grunty into Wizpig. Done. Still uses old, nostalgic characters and doesn't fuck with Banjo-Kazooie. Problem solved.
And everyone keeps arguing "Good for Rare! They're evolving the genre!" ...By removing almost everything fans loved about the old games? Why? They can innovate in plenty of other ways. I know some people here seem to think otherwise (for reasons beyond me), but Mario Galaxy is a great example. They took the core gameplay the fans of the series love and turned it on its head. And look, it turned out great!
What they did with Nuts & Bolts is stripped away the transformations, Kazooie's moves, and the platforming level design, stuck on vehicle building, and made everything flat to accommodate for the driving. They changed so much that it barely even resembles what it used to be. THAT is my problem with this game.
Plus the fucking X06 Banjo-Kazooie teaser suggested it was going to be more of the same. Showing Banjo using Kazooie as a jackhammer and showing honeycombs, which as far as I can tell aren't even IN the game. It was misleading and probably caused a lot of this drama. They could have at least hinted it would be different.
"It's a matter of perception. You assume Rare put BK in the idea, I assume Rare put the idea into BK."
Or maybe microsoft put the idea into Rare since they want to actually make some money off the purchase after almost a decade.
Or maybe microsoft put the idea into Rare since they want to actually make some money off the purchase after almost a decade.
@PIC2021:
I'm going to quote a response by Gregg to a question. If you want to hold on to the belief that this will be simply a "driving game," that's your deficiency.
---
[b]So far, there has been just a glimpse of the things you can do with your vehicles (Propellers, Springs, Weapons). Would it be possible to explain a way to complete a mission that we've not seen, using a vehicle?
Gregg Mayles:[/b] "Say there is a object that needs to be taken from A to B. How do you do it? Do you make a vehicle with prongs to push it? Do you make a vehicle to carry it? Do you try and take it via water? Do you fly it there? Do you whack it as hard as possible and send it flying? Do you try and pick it up? That's without deciding how the terrain and the baddies will come into play. Do you go for speed? Do you arm yourself to the teeth and crawl your way there? But remember, the 'better' you complete the task the better your reward.
So it's not just a case of 'complete the challenge and get a Jiggy' anymore. Each challenge ahs been designed to offer multiple approaches (and some we probably haven't thought of). Even with simple races (which there are some, but nowhere near as many as everyone seems to think) you choice of vehicle is key. There's nothing stopping you using a plane on a water based race. Some races require you to go on land, in water and in the air. Try building a vehicle for that!"
----
This seems like, as Gregg has said elsewhere in the interview, an evolution on platforming. We overcome obstacles, but now with many more options available to us.
I'm thrilled.
I'm going to quote a response by Gregg to a question. If you want to hold on to the belief that this will be simply a "driving game," that's your deficiency.
---
[b]So far, there has been just a glimpse of the things you can do with your vehicles (Propellers, Springs, Weapons). Would it be possible to explain a way to complete a mission that we've not seen, using a vehicle?
Gregg Mayles:[/b] "Say there is a object that needs to be taken from A to B. How do you do it? Do you make a vehicle with prongs to push it? Do you make a vehicle to carry it? Do you try and take it via water? Do you fly it there? Do you whack it as hard as possible and send it flying? Do you try and pick it up? That's without deciding how the terrain and the baddies will come into play. Do you go for speed? Do you arm yourself to the teeth and crawl your way there? But remember, the 'better' you complete the task the better your reward.
So it's not just a case of 'complete the challenge and get a Jiggy' anymore. Each challenge ahs been designed to offer multiple approaches (and some we probably haven't thought of). Even with simple races (which there are some, but nowhere near as many as everyone seems to think) you choice of vehicle is key. There's nothing stopping you using a plane on a water based race. Some races require you to go on land, in water and in the air. Try building a vehicle for that!"
----
This seems like, as Gregg has said elsewhere in the interview, an evolution on platforming. We overcome obstacles, but now with many more options available to us.
I'm thrilled.
@eternaldeathslayer
Your optimistic comments make sense to me. Thank you for restoring my faith in this game!
Your optimistic comments make sense to me. Thank you for restoring my faith in this game!
Does it really matter if the idea came before the IP or vice versa? Did anyone complain that Super Mario Galaxy was in space and running around on spheroids and playing with gravity was very "un-Mario"?
the first two games didnt use vehicles.. why are vehicles so important now? i just want to play as banjo... mess around with kazooie by getting him hurt.. and chilling with mumbo. yes you quoted that interview and yes i see what he is saying but it doesnt matter this stuff was never in a banjo game before so it doesnt need to be in it now. MisterMingo hit it right on the spot by saying this should of been a diddy kong racing game... and it should be in all honesty.. this is not banjo.
@Reaprar
See that's the misconception though. Everyone seems to assume you'll just be racing or whatever when you're in vehicles when in fact you'll be completing objectives.
In other words you'll be platforming IN vehicles. It's just that 80% of the time you'll be in a vehicle completing objectives and 20% of the time you'll be on foot.
See that's the misconception though. Everyone seems to assume you'll just be racing or whatever when you're in vehicles when in fact you'll be completing objectives.
In other words you'll be platforming IN vehicles. It's just that 80% of the time you'll be in a vehicle completing objectives and 20% of the time you'll be on foot.
...i dont want to spend 80% of the game in a vehicle.. i dont want to complete objectives in a vehicle. they dont need to be in the game.. i can still run around just fine.
@GUITARATOMIK
Mario galaxy is a VERY bad example... all mario galaxy did was add on to the same formula that past Mario games used... the only real drastic change was making the level into a sphere; overall, the game play was more of the same. And hell, when it came to Mario 64, that was STILL the same gameplay as the old games only adding the 3rd dimension
BK3 is attempting to completely change the gameplay to the point where it is nothing like the previous games... everything that players loved about the previous games is being tossed out with the ONLY remaining bit being the characters themselves...
Mario galaxy is a VERY bad example... all mario galaxy did was add on to the same formula that past Mario games used... the only real drastic change was making the level into a sphere; overall, the game play was more of the same. And hell, when it came to Mario 64, that was STILL the same gameplay as the old games only adding the 3rd dimension
BK3 is attempting to completely change the gameplay to the point where it is nothing like the previous games... everything that players loved about the previous games is being tossed out with the ONLY remaining bit being the characters themselves...
"this stuff was never in a banjo game before so it doesnt need to be in it now."
And there was never an ocarina in the original Legend of Zelda.
Your point?
And there was never an ocarina in the original Legend of Zelda.
Your point?
I think the only bad thing Rare has had for them really is marketing. I really liked Viva Pinata. Ya I didn't think I would but it's a lot of fun. A lot of people who actually played it feel this way. I think Kameo was a pretty good game too and refreshing. It didn't feel like the same crap pumped out year after year. I just don't get why they can't seem to be bigger a bigger hit with sales.
And you didn't spend 80% of Ocarina of Time playing the fucking ocarina. It was mostly more of the same.
Your point?
Your point?
Ugh I'm really torn guys. This is a game I've grown up with, and an ip I loved more than Mario. I have so much awesome memories of the platforming days of yore I've experienced on my N64 with this game, and I really was a little sad to hear that 80% of the game was in vehicles. But after reading the interview, I'm definitely not as angry. They have a lot of good things being planned, and i happen to like the idea of building things and flying them while blowing shit up. Sure it may be different than all the Banjo-Kazooie games I grew up on, but GOD-DAMMIT, I'm going to buy this game and give it a shot. Im most likely going to end up enjoying it, and there's nothing I can do, bitching won't stop anything, but I believe that if this game does what it's trying to do right, then we're going to love this game just as much as the others.
Ugh I'm really torn guys. This is a game I've grown up with, and an ip I loved more than Mario. I have so much awesome memories of the platforming days of yore I've experienced on my N64 with this game, and I really was a little sad to hear that 80% of the game was in vehicles. But after reading the interview, I'm definitely not as angry. They have a lot of good things being planned, and i happen to like the idea of building things and flying them while blowing shit up. Sure it may be different than all the Banjo-Kazooie games I grew up on, but GOD-DAMMIT, I'm going to buy this game and give it a shot. Im most likely going to end up enjoying it, and there's nothing I can do, bitching won't stop anything, but I believe that if this game does what it's trying to do right, then we're going to love this game just as much as the others.
@Reaprar
You should read King3Vbo's blog on this and specifically this quote he pulled from the interview:
"Say there is a object that needs to be taken from A to B. How do you do it? Do you make a vehicle with prongs to push it? Do you make a vehicle to carry it? Do you try and take it via water? Do you fly it there? Do you whack it as hard as possible and send it flying? Do you try and pick it up? That's without deciding how the terrain and the baddies will come into play. Do you go for speed? Do you arm yourself to the teeth and crawl your way there? But remember, the 'better' you complete the task the better your reward. So it's not just a case of 'complete the challenge and get a Jiggy' anymore. Each challenge has been designed to offer multiple approaches (and some we probably haven't thought of). Even with simple races (which there are some, but nowhere near as many as everyone seems to think) you choice of vehicle is key. There's nothing stopping you using a plane on a water based race. Some races require you to go on land, in water and in the air. Try building a vehicle for that! "
This is where I'm getting my "platforming in vehicles" stuff. It's just a new way to complete those classic 3D platformer challenges instead of jumping around like every other 3 million platformers have you do. I understand your concern, trust me, but the fact that this ISN't called Banjo 3 leads me to believe that they may try to do another traditional platformer later anyway.
@Monte
My point there was that no one complained about the concept or whether or not the idea for a gravity jumping platformer came before the idea to put Mario in it. Arguably, that game could have any other character/universe in it otehr than MArio and people would have been none the wiser. I'm just saying it doesn't matter.
You should read King3Vbo's blog on this and specifically this quote he pulled from the interview:
"Say there is a object that needs to be taken from A to B. How do you do it? Do you make a vehicle with prongs to push it? Do you make a vehicle to carry it? Do you try and take it via water? Do you fly it there? Do you whack it as hard as possible and send it flying? Do you try and pick it up? That's without deciding how the terrain and the baddies will come into play. Do you go for speed? Do you arm yourself to the teeth and crawl your way there? But remember, the 'better' you complete the task the better your reward. So it's not just a case of 'complete the challenge and get a Jiggy' anymore. Each challenge has been designed to offer multiple approaches (and some we probably haven't thought of). Even with simple races (which there are some, but nowhere near as many as everyone seems to think) you choice of vehicle is key. There's nothing stopping you using a plane on a water based race. Some races require you to go on land, in water and in the air. Try building a vehicle for that! "
This is where I'm getting my "platforming in vehicles" stuff. It's just a new way to complete those classic 3D platformer challenges instead of jumping around like every other 3 million platformers have you do. I understand your concern, trust me, but the fact that this ISN't called Banjo 3 leads me to believe that they may try to do another traditional platformer later anyway.
@Monte
My point there was that no one complained about the concept or whether or not the idea for a gravity jumping platformer came before the idea to put Mario in it. Arguably, that game could have any other character/universe in it otehr than MArio and people would have been none the wiser. I'm just saying it doesn't matter.
I think a lot of the shitstorm this game has created the last few days is due to the fact that it's been what almost 10 years since the last game and that there have been less than a handful of platformers so far this generation. People critize series like dynasty warriors and mega man for not changing especially since those games come out on an (almost) yearly basis. But since this series hasn't been seen in a long time (and the lack of games in teh genre) people want more of the same - to revisit those characters and settings. I would think if a Banjo game came out with the regularity of something like Madden people would be more acceptant of these changes.
Despite not having not played either of the BK games, I can see where the fans of the series come from, but I an also see where people don't want the same thing over and over again (or maybe they do depending on the series or release schedule)
Despite not having not played either of the BK games, I can see where the fans of the series come from, but I an also see where people don't want the same thing over and over again (or maybe they do depending on the series or release schedule)
The people who say Rare is going the way of Sonic Team are really, REALLY stupid. Go fucking play Viva Pinata right now, it's a great game.
i personally love viva pinata.. that game is amazing but it would suck if it was banjo kazzoie: viva pinata... therefore makes my point this new banjo kazooie game should not be banjo kazooie: diddy kong racing.
Honestly, I think I'm just biased. I personally am done with jumping on platforms. That's why I got bored of SMG as I felt like I was just playing SM64 over again. I'm not against the mechanic completely, I just don't ever want to play a pure platformer again. God of War for example is what I consider to be a new breed of platforming that has a perfect balance of jumping on shit and action (which is why I honestly enjoyed GoW2 waaay more than SMG).
I understand that other people are NOT tired of it though and I know that's why you're pissed.
And again, my original SMG point was addressing the fact that people were saying they came up with the concept before they thought of putting the IP in it, and denouncing it for it. My point was who cares if it works.
I understand that other people are NOT tired of it though and I know that's why you're pissed.
And again, my original SMG point was addressing the fact that people were saying they came up with the concept before they thought of putting the IP in it, and denouncing it for it. My point was who cares if it works.
@REAPRAR - I definitely saw a spring being used to jump onto a platform in that video... but I don't that that's as relevant.
The original Banjo-Kazooie games were much more than jumping on platforms. They were sets of levels each with about 10 unique puzzles to overcome. To reach these puzzles, you had to usually jump across obstacles --- this is where the traditional platforming was involved. The objectives, those puzzles, usually involved swimming (which can be done in a submarine now), flying (which can be done in a plane), solving puzzles (obvious), escorting light bulbs, running through mazes, timed events, etc, etc, etc.
There's no doubt that the puzzles will still be in the game, as they were the main objectives in each area to get jiggies. People are assuming that the means of reaching these puzzles as a platformer will be gone, though. Having not played the game, I can't say if they will or will not --- but I seriously doubt the creator of the first two games would remove the obstacles, or even make them less frequent. Instead of using bird-flips to jump to higher platforms, I see springs and propellers.
Considering how the creator is trying to evolve the genre, I'm sure he's giving the same consideration to the level design so that the new tools we're given will replace the 8 kazooie-related moves from the first game, but serve the same functionality.
@GUITARATOMIK - I thought that was the most interesting part of the interview as well, and I even quoted it several posts up!
The original Banjo-Kazooie games were much more than jumping on platforms. They were sets of levels each with about 10 unique puzzles to overcome. To reach these puzzles, you had to usually jump across obstacles --- this is where the traditional platforming was involved. The objectives, those puzzles, usually involved swimming (which can be done in a submarine now), flying (which can be done in a plane), solving puzzles (obvious), escorting light bulbs, running through mazes, timed events, etc, etc, etc.
There's no doubt that the puzzles will still be in the game, as they were the main objectives in each area to get jiggies. People are assuming that the means of reaching these puzzles as a platformer will be gone, though. Having not played the game, I can't say if they will or will not --- but I seriously doubt the creator of the first two games would remove the obstacles, or even make them less frequent. Instead of using bird-flips to jump to higher platforms, I see springs and propellers.
Considering how the creator is trying to evolve the genre, I'm sure he's giving the same consideration to the level design so that the new tools we're given will replace the 8 kazooie-related moves from the first game, but serve the same functionality.
@GUITARATOMIK - I thought that was the most interesting part of the interview as well, and I even quoted it several posts up!
@GUITARATOMIK
no one complained because Mario galaxy was STILL a mario game... it had all the old elements that we love to see in a mario game, with the only difference being that the levels were sphere's instead of flat planes... The reason people complain about BK3 cause it takes away many of the elements that we know and loved about the previous games.
@JIm
Y'know, as much as i love the Dynasty games, i can see the arguement against it... i mean, compared to other franchises, the DW games have kept their changes to absolute minimum. a Franchise like Mario makes lots of changes while still keeping more of the same... it's sort of a balance; the DW series does TOO MUCH of the same, and BK3 is making way to many changes...
Granted, one problem that the DW series suffers from is that fact that its a retelling of chinese story and as such is stuck to telling the same story in each game... That alone gets it stuck to having the game cover the same battles as the previous ones and leaves little room to add on... afterall, story is one of the main driving point behind creating new levels, drama and stuff like that... it kind of limits what they can change... unless they want to call it DW, but not have it cover the three kingdoms story; which i'm not sure how well that would turn out...
no one complained because Mario galaxy was STILL a mario game... it had all the old elements that we love to see in a mario game, with the only difference being that the levels were sphere's instead of flat planes... The reason people complain about BK3 cause it takes away many of the elements that we know and loved about the previous games.
@JIm
Y'know, as much as i love the Dynasty games, i can see the arguement against it... i mean, compared to other franchises, the DW games have kept their changes to absolute minimum. a Franchise like Mario makes lots of changes while still keeping more of the same... it's sort of a balance; the DW series does TOO MUCH of the same, and BK3 is making way to many changes...
Granted, one problem that the DW series suffers from is that fact that its a retelling of chinese story and as such is stuck to telling the same story in each game... That alone gets it stuck to having the game cover the same battles as the previous ones and leaves little room to add on... afterall, story is one of the main driving point behind creating new levels, drama and stuff like that... it kind of limits what they can change... unless they want to call it DW, but not have it cover the three kingdoms story; which i'm not sure how well that would turn out...
@topgeargorilla ...I play as Banjo... *single manly tear rolls down cheek*
I think it will be good, aslong as they keep the cheeky humor in I'll be happy. I wonder if they will have any more SnS references in it, rare just loves to tease their fans with that broken idea.
I think it will be good, aslong as they keep the cheeky humor in I'll be happy. I wonder if they will have any more SnS references in it, rare just loves to tease their fans with that broken idea.
@Monte
See my last point about Mario Galaxy in my last post to see what I was specifically referring to.
See my last point about Mario Galaxy in my last post to see what I was specifically referring to.
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