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Ask The Weekly Geek: AO Ratings and You photo

PAX knocked me on my ass, so it's been a while, but welcome back to a brand new edition of Ask The Weekly Geek! This week, I will use my MASSIVE BRAIN to tackle yet another inquiry by you, the intrepid Dtoid reader. Prepare yourselves for a cranky rant about morality, it's anecdotally delicious!

Q: What will it take for the AO rating to be legitimate and not just a death sentence? (Thanks, A New Challenger!)

Adults Only. What a strange rating to have. While the name implies that only mature, responsible people should partake in said rated media, it holds a deeper, darker connotation. Boobies. Gore. Swears. More boobies. Yes, a game marked Adults Only is sure to be filled to the brim with so much depraved material as to choke a horse (I believe horse choking also garners an AO rating). Most recently we have seen Rockstar's Manhunt 2 scarlet letter'd by this AO mark of evil, which effectively banned it not only from stores like Wal*Mart, but from entire consoles as Nintendo and Sony's policy is to keep all AO games off their systems. This is a major blow to Rockstar's profits should the game be released, being that Wal*Mart owns the world, and Nintendo sells a metric butt-ton of Wii systems. So what is the purpose of the AO rating if it just functions as a way for the moral police to say what we can and cannot show in games?


A logical comparison would be to the MPAA's NC-17 rating. Movies such as Showgirls and the South Park Movie were threatened with the deadly NC-17 tag, only to go back and cut out content in order to slide under the R mark. Most theaters won't show NC-17 movies, and some stores (again, Wal*Mart) won't sell the DVDs. Here in America, we are too hung up on what may or may not fall into the hands of children, and what is morally right or wrong for society as a whole. The only problem with this is that: 1. the rest of the world thinks we are fundamentalist nutjobs, and 2. we are fundamentalist nutjobs.

I used to work in the electronics department at an unnamed mega-grocery-chain-outlet-store-thing (okay, it was Fred Meyer) and I cannot tell you how many times I had parents come in and purchase games (and music) that were completely inappropriate for their children. I had one woman come in to purchase Grand Theft Auto 3 for her son, who was standing next to her, flitting about like a butterfly from the stacks of Yu-Gi-Oh! cards to the batteries back to the register. He couldn't have been more than 8. The vacant look in the woman's eyes showed me that she had no capability to understand reason, but I soldiered on anyway.

I told her that she should play the game with her son and ask him why he enjoys it. If she didn't put this much effort into it, she really shouldn't buy it for him. She then informed me that he would just play the game at his friend's house, rolled her eyes, and paid. There is an interesting dichotomy here. On one hand, we live in a nanny state where parents expect game companies to be responsible for the content that their children are seeing. On the other hand, parents don't really seem to give a crap. It's a half-hearted hypocritical caring that is pervasive in American parenting today.

Is the AO rating really all that much of an issue, though?
To date only a handful of games have been given an AO rating, and pretty much only for sexual content. Heck, most of the games are just Playboy screensavers or games called "All Nude Cyber". Incredibly violent games get an M rating, while boobies (which over half the population have two of!) get you banned from pretty much everything. What the hell? The real issue here isn't the legitimacy of the AO rating, it's the strange moral standards that the ESRB uses to rate games. It's the rating system as a whole. Does anyone really take the ESRB ratings seriously? When was the last time you heard a parent at a store say "Wait little Billy, let's check the ESRB rating first!"

My point is that the rest of the rating system isn't taken seriously or regarded as legitimate, so why should the AO rating be any different? It's a joke. It's our obsession with controlling what is "ok" for people to see, play, hear or watch. It's America's fear of new media -- a theme repeated throughout the generations. When will the AO rating stop being a death sentence? When America stops giggling whenever someone says the word "penis".

Tee hee. Penis.

Chris Furniss is the editor and host of The Weekly Geek, a podcast mostly about video games. He is also a life-long fan of boobies. Ask him a question for next week's column, will ya?








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37 comments | showing # 1 to 37
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Neonie's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 15:48
Neonie
Haha, penis.
keyrat's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 15:49
keyrat
Get rid of the Mature 17+ and just have an Adult 18+ rating. Let that encompass everything from violence to sex.
Leaderz0rz's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 15:52
Leaderz0rz
You can have a movie where people get tortured and killed but if it has a boob in it its OFF LIMITS!!
Monkeycat's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 15:55
Monkeycat
Boogh. Ratings mean nothing to people. It seems like I have the only mom who ever cared about this kind of thing and took the time to explain to me "Oh, hello, daughter of mine, I just thought I'd let you know that what happens in video games isn't real, and it's just for fun." Instead, we have lazy parents who blame their screwed up kids on any outlet they can (games, television, etc) instead of actually bothering to PARENT their children. Lazy fucks.
Nyteshade's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 16:06
Nyteshade
It's a catch 22...

Parents that would normally be observant over matters like their child's entertainment, would check out what their child is playing/watching with or without a rating system. My mother used to check out my music and games well before they had any standardized rating system.

Parents that won't monitor what their children are experiencing, won't even bother to look at the ratings. If you don't care what your child sees, what does a little box with an age change?

Personal experience: When I was in middle school I listened to Manson and all sorts of hard shit (older friends), my mom knew this (she could control purchases, but not my computer), and so she sat me down and made sure I understood that these were just expressions and lyrics... and I haven't killed anyone (yet).

It's called parenting.
dv8withn8's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 16:06
dv8withn8
Q: What will it take for the AO rating to be legitimate and not just a death sentence?

A: Radical social change within our country. Our country is so bent on blaming anyone but themselves for anything. And they expect everything to be done for them or regulated so they don't have to. Society itself must change before ratings guidelines are actually seen as such.
DGX Goggles's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 16:06
DGX Goggles
Yeah, parents in the USA suck. I see one of those moms every time I walk into Gamestop, and I think wow, I can't wait to see how shitty your little kid is going to turn out.
rabidkeebler's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 16:10
rabidkeebler
Hmmm keyrat, I like the thought of a Adult 18+. But there are some issues. Wal-Mart is going to want to be able to easily identify the dirty from the obscene (this is lets say 3 years down the road after 18+ is passed). Because you and I both know the porno-game will come out as 18+. This will lead to some difficult situations with both the consoles and the retailers as things will now move to a game to game basis for all 18+ games.
SLiFE's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 16:10
SLiFE
The problems facing the introduction of a *proper* AO rating pale in comparison to the unnderlying social issues in America.
It's sad, really.
chronicus_prime's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 16:14
chronicus_prime
I think when most parents think about AO games, they think of sex. Sex in America is still a big deal. Also living in a country thatwas founded by Religious Purists doesn't help the cause. So in answer to your question "What will it take for the AO rating to be legitimate and not just a death sentence?"--Another Country!!
KyleGamgee's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 16:23
KyleGamgee
When I was a kid, there was a story on the news about movie I had watched. The movie was Conan the Barbarian shown unedited on network television. When Conan is brought a bare-chested woman, he grabs a fur blanket and wraps her up, leading her into his living quarters. The phone lines at the netwrk were flooded with phone calls from angry parents. Later in the movie, Conan decapitated the bad guy, held up his head briefly and then tossed it down some stairs. The network got 2 complaints.

My mom said that was messed up. She said she would rather I see a woman in a natual state of undress than to se someone brutally decapitated. She went on to say she would rather I not see a woman in a natural state of undress until I was much older.

I ignored the second thing she said but I remembered the first thing forever.
keyrat's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 16:27
keyrat
@Rabidkeebler: That's the best part. Since all adult games will be judged as being for adults (instead of that false illusion of M17), things like Manhunt, which is absolutely for adults, will get the same rating as Strip Poker Deluxe. Then the stores will decide what to stock and what not to stock, not a simple rating to destroy any chance.
ChrisFurniss's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 16:59
ChrisFurniss
You guys are all right! I love you all. Good job.

Now ask me a good question for next week.
Neonie's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 17:09
Neonie
Well since it's been a hot topic on the blogs latly, and I would like to hear your opinion on it:

Companys that are in it for the money, and why those companys joined the gameing industry?

I think I phrased that right...
ChrisFurniss's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 17:14
ChrisFurniss
No. No you didn't.
Neonie's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 17:18
Neonie
Well hey, fix it up. Phrase it right. I don't care xD. You know what I meant.
Grover G Grover's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 17:33
Grover G Grover
Dear the Weekly Geek,

Roger Ebert says video games can never be art. We all know he's wrong, but if somebody asks why he's wrong we mostly just say "old people are stupid!" While that is true, it doesn't really answer the question satisfactorily. So can you articulate why video games are or can be art so that we gamers can have some good answers ready to fire off when this is talked about?

Hugs and Kisses
Grover G. Grover
Mister Three's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 17:38
Mister Three
Hey weekly geek,

How can gamers overcome the mainstream "gamer" stigma?
Justin Villasenor's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 17:41
Justin Villasenor
"When was the last time you heard a parent at a store say "Wait little Billy, let's check the ESRB rating first!""

Actually I have heard a parent say essentially that, mind you it was only on one occasion, but it still restored a bit of my faith in some parent's competence.
Excremento's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 18:18
Excremento
@ Chris Furniss

I download the podcast every week man, great job on this post:

My question is this.

Do you agree/disagree with the current trend of game manufacturers attempting to market to a broader audience? I don't want to use the hardcore/casual gamer reference, but the president of ubisoft said that his company is redirecting alot of the companies' resources to the casual game market due to the overhead being much cheaper, the games are faster to produce, and a there's usually a guarantee of seeing a return on the finished product. What's your take on this?
dprime's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 18:36
dprime
American culture is so much more extreme. In Europe and Canada, there are fewer nutjob fundamentalist fear everything types, as well as fewer outlandish amoral types. In America, the average person will soon be a thing of the past. Like TVs.
0kelvin's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 19:11
0kelvin
Actually, according to surveys, 85% of parents check the ESRB rating every time they buy their children a game (up from 43% in 1999). The FTC also reports that 79% of parents take ESRB ratings into account when buying games for their kids. As an informed adult buying games for yourself, of course you don't take the ratings seriously. They don't affect you at all unless a game gets rated AO. But the large majority of parents do take them seriously.

The stories of parents buying their kids an inappropriate game stand out because nobody notices when a parent decides not to buy a game for their kid.
Holiday's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 19:16
Holiday
Problem is that it's rather rare game developers show any sort of maturity when it comes to the possibility of sex and violence in video games. Everything has to push the boundaries of good taste. Like upskirt action on teenaged female characters or the ability to kill someone ingame by hooking electrodes to some character's nutsack.

And to think it wasn't that long ago we were content with jumping up and down in a side scroller collecting coins.

rabidkeebler's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 19:22
rabidkeebler
Here is an interesting twist on the casual gamer question. With so much focus on casual games. There seems to be a lack of innovation. How many mini-game, bejewel clones are we going to see? Or is this all casual games will be limited to?
MrBAMF's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 19:38
MrBAMF
ya, why can i bash some ones skull in and only have to be 17 but to see a boob i have to be an adult...
jerrt's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 20:54
jerrt
what would it take for ao to be legitimized?

sadly, it would take someone figuring out how they could make lots of money with it.

if parents have to be spoon feed how to parent, they shouldn't be parenting.
theRat's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 21:57
theRat
My mom actually checked the ESRB ratings closely when she bought me games, and then played it along with me and my brother. When she considered us mature enough, we got our first M rated game, Metal Gear Solid.
Good times.

Article was once again spot on, so I ask a question for the next feature. Bioshock's recent cracking has sent shockwaves around the gaming community. Is piracy actually hurting the industry? And why do developers only get around 20% of profits?
Tristero's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/31/2007 23:44
Tristero
No questions for you. Just love!

I highly recommend the film "This Movie is Not Rated". They hire a private investigator to track down the people who work for the MPAA and thoroughly discuss the problems surrounding the NC-17 rating. I found a lot of parallels between the MPAA and the ESRB while watching the movie.
deanhatescoffee's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/01/2007 00:00
deanhatescoffee
I'm not sure if this news is out there yet but, for the record, I talked to Rockstar at PAX and was told that Manhunt 2 was approved with an "M" rating like the day before PAX, and it'll be out in November. Now we can finally see what all the fuss is about, and be able to decide (for ourselves!) if it's even worth playing. :)
turdferguson's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/01/2007 00:07
turdferguson
I, for one, don't want to walk into a game store and see a bunch of porno games. Not that that will be an issue in a few years anyway. You want to know what will make the AO rating not a death sentence? When content distribution is no longer done through physical media. If I can just download a game, any game, from E to AO without leaving the home, the retailer's problem of having an AO rated game in a store simply won't exist. Similar to what the VHS cassette and the internets did for the porn industry, the content of a game won't matter, except if the retailer simply doesn't choose to carry it, but with the internet one small retailer who wants to sell AO rated games will be able to take that buisness, make a profit from it, the consumer gets his digital copy of "homicidal rapist meets mr. hands", and everyone is happy. The issue of a console manufacturer deciding they don't want certain content on their console is beyond our control, as they have every right to say what goes and doesn't on their system.
A New Challenger's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/01/2007 01:39
A New Challenger
(I'm the chosen one! Yay!)

I think you have a good point, Furniss: the ratings themselves aren't being taken seriously. I think the actual ratings the ESRB assigns to games are fitting 99% of the time; as a gamer I know what I can expect in terms of content, that part of the job is being done just fine. Where they've (somehow) failed is in getting the nongaming public to know or care what the ratings mean. That certainly contributes.

What's so frustrating about the Manhunt 2 shitstorm is it's really hard to pinpoint which segment of the whole video game industry is damning the AO rating. It's like that Thomas Nast cartoon where everyone is standing in a circle and pointing at the next guy over. You have politicians banging on the pulpit to threaten retailers and manufacturers with legal consequences and regulation under both existing laws. The ESA is fighting back, but at the same time console manufacturers are playing it as safe as they can by banning a whole category of games that in all likelihood would form a very small percentage of releases if allowed, and retailers doing the same. So the politicians influence both, but how much interplay is there between the retailers' reasons for not carrying AO games and the big 3 banning them? I suspect retailers are leading the console makers. And I'll continue in a new post because I'm about to hit the text limit on the Wii.
A New Challenger's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/01/2007 02:10
A New Challenger
As jerrt mentioned, and I agree and am going to embellish upon here, one thing that needs to happen is a game coming along that, somehow, is undeniably huge. Like, if you combined Halo with Super Mario Bros. 3 and put it on the PlayStation 2 huge, in terms of numbers and hype. Something that is expected to single handedly save an uncertain holiday season for certain retailers.

And then the announcement comes that it has been rated AO.

To get back to where I left off, I think the retailers are leading the console makers for the most part. Thus far, most proposed (and enacted and then shut down by the courts) legislation has been directed at retail. Stores are taking the brunt of the political fire, and are doing what they can to shield themselves from even further attacks. Furthermore, Walmart, the single largest game seller, has its own social agenda as evidenced in the past by forcing record labels to put out an edited version of an album if they want it carried by Walmart (which they do, if they like money.)

.......

This is ending up really long, I think I'll make it a blog post later when I have access to the PC.
chim-chim's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/01/2007 03:18
chim-chim
Where I do get your point for the most part I don't really agree that parents don't use the ratings. On a number of different occasions I've overheard kids running up to their parent asking for a game where the parents first response is "what's it rated?' As far as the violence = good, sex = bad thing the ESRB is expected to reflect the values of a culture and the fact is our culture is genuinely way more offended by sex than violence. My hypothesis for why this is the case is the we know why violence is wrong where with exposure to sex we see "steals a childs innocence" and other vague expressions tossed around which masks the fact that we don't really know exactly why it makes us so uncomfortable and thus the unkown fear always trumps the known fear.
Alaphic's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/01/2007 08:29
Alaphic
@brainderailment:

He still faced the challenge, however, of proving that the impalement scene was merely special effects. In court, he explained how the effect was achieved: a bicycle seat was attached to the end of an iron pole, on which the actress sat. She then took a short length of balsa wood and held it in her mouth and looked skyward, thus making it look like she had been impaled.

Knowledge is power man. ;)
Samit Sarkar's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/01/2007 21:31
Samit Sarkar
@A New Challenger: Damn, I was already impressed with the actual content of your post, but the fact that you typed all that out on a Wii is amazing. I can’t deal with that stuff — it’s maddeningly inefficient — and I’m much happier with my PS3 and the USB keyboard that I have hooked up to it.
acharlesmobile's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/01/2007 23:29
acharlesmobile
The new challenger's idea of having a huge game coming out rated AO was exactly what i was thinking. I was thinking of having MGS4 rated AO, as in, Hideo slipping a single boobie in or something to warrant it. See how the retailers react.
angry_poster's Avatar - Comment posted on 09/02/2007 02:52
angry_poster
<sigh> its sad really. i've heard (read) this argument so many times. i don't see what the big deal is. what they ought to do is make the AO games download only. i mean, thats how i get my adult material. with consoles hdd's getting bigger all the time...why not make the same option avail.
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