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Ask The Weekly Geek: a new feature for your enjoyment photo

Greetings! I am Chris Furniss from The Weekly Geek podcast, here to bring you a brand new feature aptly named: "Ask The Weekly Geek". Why should you ask me anything, let alone believe anything I say? Because I am known to have an encyclopedic knowledge of things Geek, and it is clogging up my brain tubes. I must eject some of this knowledge or else my head will explode. Help my head not explode!

I like to rant. I am passionate about things, either rabidly for or rabidly against said things. I take video games way too seriously, just like you, dear reader. And with that, let us begin!

QUESTION: "Why does Nintendo insist on ignoring the hardcore gamer base and marketing to my grandma?"

Ah, yes. You are obviously referring to Nintendo's new marketing strategy where they release a metric ass-ton of games that make you waggle your arms in order to have fun. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not a Wii hater, nor am I a Wii fanboy. For the record, I love Nintendo, and always have; I even sport a Triforce tattoo on my wrist. That said, the Triforce on my wrist burned like hellfire when I was forced to swing my Wii remote around to make Link's sword slash in Twilight Princess, but I digress. First, let's get a little context.

First rule of business: Make money.

This is why businesses exist. They aren't around for the betterment of mankind, for the elevation of society, or for the protection of the Earth - that's the realm of charities and private organizations full of crazy people (see: Greenpeace,). No, businesses are in the business of business, and the video game business is quite the lucrative one indeed. Nintendo knows this firsthand: back in the 80's they dominated during a time when all that was being released were clones of other successful games. Everyone had their Centipede, their Pong, their Missile Command, until a sparkling young artist named Miyamoto came to town and was set to task at making use of a bunch of old arcade cabinets for a game that didn't sell called Radar Scope. Because seriously. Would you play a game called Radar Scope? He came up with Donkey Kong, which was so innovative and crazy addictive that arcades began to take issue with the cabinet's coin case filling up all the time. You couldn't play it when you wandered in to your favorite arcade because everyone had already played it to death. Nintendo saved the games industry then, and ushered in an age of home console gaming a few years later with the NES. This is where we come in.

By "we", I mean the hardcore gamer demographic. The guys who used to stay up all night playing through Milon's Secret Castle because it was there. The guys who would wake up three hours before the school bus came to conquer Contra without the code. We are between the ages of 18-35, typically male, and ridiculously white. We know every bit of minutiae regarding the games industry, and can tell you things like the Japanese name for Goomba (kuribo!). And perhaps most importantly, we have a lot of disposable income, and take our video games very seriously.

The trouble is that we're a static group. Hardcore gamers are an exclusive clique with an entire industry built around their specific needs. We buy a ton of games and are going to continue to buy a ton of games into our old age, but as we approach that elderly threshold, the average age of gamers keeps going up. We aren't attracting anyone older or younger to our demographic. If this keeps up, we're likely to start seeing strange titles in the future surrounding the adventures of 70 year old men all of a sudden realizing they have superpowers along side Madden 2050: The Maddening.

Simply put, there's no growth in the hardcore gamer demographic.

What happens when the hardcore gamers start dying off? Nintendo is used to thinking long term; they've been around for over a hundred years, and got their start making playing cards called Hanafuda. They've only recently got into video games. How lucrative can a market be when in 40 years your target demographic is worm food? Enter the blue ocean strategy, which has Nintendo throwing a Wii remote-shaped life preserver out to non-gamers. Brain Age, Nintendogs and the Wii have all proven that you can get people who had no intention or desire to play video games in the past to spend their money on Nintendo's products.

The question is: will this new demographic that Nintendo is trying to win over transition into the hardcore? Will you see soccer moms playing Metroid Prime? Not likely. Rather than simply ushering non-gamers into the gamer fold, Nintendo is creating an all-new market. They are turning their focus on to this brand new group which, by sheer virtue of its numbers, has much more money than we hardcore gamers ever had. This is horrible for us! This is not a good thing at all! As their focus moves more and more towards constructing hats made out of money, the hardcore games are going to be left in the dust. Funds are no longer going to be spent making some brilliant new 40+ hour RPG where you fight monsters made out of poop (see: Blue Dragon), it's going to go to the development house who is making the next compilation of Super Partysaurus Fun Time Land, because it sells. You and I may think that waggling your arm and pretending it's a sword doesn't feel like the real deal, but people with no experience using a d-pad are going to think it's immersive and amazing.

Sure, this may be a jaded point of view, but look at Nintendo's E3 conference this year. There was a magical moment there when Bill Trinen announced that Miyamoto was coming out to present a brand new IP no one had ever seen before. Nick Brutal was sitting next to me, and I was so excited I think I peed his pants. Was it going to be a brand new and exciting series like Pikmin was? Was it going to be a new Zelda? We started clapping excitedly like a couple of little girls at a Hannah Montana show. Miyamoto walked on to the stage, and my chest swelled a bit -- this was the man who brought so much happiness to my life through his creative vision. What sort of new magic would he wow us with today?

Oh. It was a standing simulator. WiiFit.

My heart sunk. Miyamoto no longer cared about me. He was marketing to someone else now, someone with completely different gaming tastes. Someone who likes to stand and get said standing evaluated on their TV screen. I felt forsaken by the man who helped hone my gaming tastes to begin with.

What does the future hold for Nintendo? What can you do as a gamer to cope with this horrible waggle-based brave new world? Pretty much nothing. You can learn to enjoy Nintendo's new "casual" gaming attitude, or you can look elsewhere for your gaming fun. Nintendo has changed, and they've left you in the dust. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go weep for a couple hundred hours. Thanks for depressing me with your question, jerk.

Have a question for The Weekly Geek? Post it in the comments for next week's column!







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59 comments | showing # 1 to 50
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Chad Concelmo's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 17:30
Chad Concelmo
OMG, am I reading something by Chris Furniss right now?! I am so happy!
I have a question: How are you so amazing?
Answer: You are Chris Furniss.
Sorry, I just ruined the fun of the column.
nilcam's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 17:45
nilcam
First off, Nintendo is ignoring the hardcore gamers is the new Nintendo is teh kiddy. Gamers seem to feel the need to hate on Nintendo and it's gotten very old. They've always provided reliable hardware and great games to both hardcore and casual gamers.

Next, I don't think Nintendo is ignoring the hardcore gamers - tons of hardcore titles are being released by Nintendo and third party developers. As a matter of fact, when was the last time we got a new Mario, Smash Bros. and Metroid within a 5 month period? Or a Mario, Zelda, Smash Bros., Metroid and Wario Ware within a 13 month period? Nintendo has always spread out its flagship franchises over long periods of time. I think this is a clear message that we are not forgotten.
Samit Sarkar's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 17:46
Samit Sarkar
Hey! I disagree with your mass generalizations! I am 20, but I’m not white, and I certainly don’t have lots of disposable income (probably because I have a PS3).

Seriously, though, this was a good read...I wonder what’s in store next week!
ChrisFurniss's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 17:51
ChrisFurniss
@nilcam

I see your point, though I don't think that the hardcore gamers should be thankful that they are only being served nintendo's tried and true franchises. No new franchises are really being created, and when there are ones being pushed to the hardcore (project HAMMER) they get canceled. Nintendo is content with releasing minigame compilations, and that's it. We just aren't seeing new, creative, awesome titles. Look at the 360. Bioshock, The Darkness, Dead Rising, Gears of War, EVERYTHING on XBLA... it's for the most part original content, and made for the "hardcore". So yeah. Nintendo doesn't care about the hardcore. They care about franchises and making hats made of money.
wrttnwrd's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 17:55
wrttnwrd
What's with the freaky sword by your desk? It makes me nervous...
Rockvillian's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 17:58
Rockvillian
No More Heroes
Tron Knotts's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 17:58
Tron Knotts
Cute answer to a dumb question. The real answer is "Nintendo does not only care about your Grandma. If that were true, there would be no Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Bros Brawl, or Metroid Prime 3 coming out this year".

Nintendo has never released so many strong first and second party titles with in the first year of a systems launch. They have never supported the life long gamer more than they are now.

But, they are also making games for the new gamer. Some gaming lifers may resent that, because they are completely nuts and have some sort of weird need to always be catered to. Well, good luck with that fellas. Not every tv show is going to be tailored made to your tastes. Not every movie, comic book, or pop song either.

And now, you also can't count on every video game being made specificly for you. Games have finally become something potentially for everyone. Get over it.
DanielMachine's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 18:15
DanielMachine
I want original games on Virtual Console.
Grover G Grover's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 18:15
Grover G Grover
I agree with Nilcam and Tron. People on the internet used to say that Nintendo was only for kiddies and that was just as untrue as saying they're neglecting the hardcore gamer now. At most, Nintendo's marketing focus is on grandmas.

Also I heard Project HAMMER isn't cancelled, only on hold.
Colette Bennett's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 18:17
Colette Bennett
Dear Chris Furniss, I would like to bear your children after you knock me up on a shrine in the shape of Link's shield. Thank you.
Chris Taran's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 18:23
Chris Taran
@ Chris Furniss

"Look at the 360. Bioshock, The Darkness, Dead Rising, Gears of War,..."

Okay, now how many of those titles you mentioned are first party Microsoft titles? None. So the examples you gave are all 3rd party titles. Why direct all your anger at Nintendo then and not on these 3rd party developers who seem to be slacking on the Wii? As others have said while Nintendo may be catering a large amount of time to the casual market, they do still cater to the hard core with quite a number of titles. Could they be doing more? Sure. But, to make it sound like Nintendo is squarely responsible for the lack of hardcore centric games is pretty short sited.
bleep's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 18:25
bleep
Impressive article Chris
Chris Taran's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 18:25
Chris Taran
Allright, Gears of War is a second party title because MS published it, point remains that outside developers are just as much if not more at fault then Nintendo.
XeroxMe's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 18:28
XeroxMe
I thought Project HAMMER was just on hold currently. Nintendo is making some new IPs. Disaster Day of Crisis is still set to come out, and I know that's just one game but Nintendo has plenty to keep you busy. This whole "Nintendo's forgotten us" paranoia is getting out of hand. Metroid, Mario, Smash Bros. and Mario Kart will all be coming out in a six month span. Honestly just because they've been around a while doesn't make them any less of a game. If you're bored with Nintendo games the take a break play some 360 or PS3, but to declare they've forgotten "hardcore gamers" (I dislike buzzwords) is wrong. I respect your opinion and can see what makes you concerned, but I have to disagree.
zardoz's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 18:29
zardoz
Sorry, this whole "Nintendo doesn't care about the hardcore gamer" statement hasn't been thought through properly, ot at least people have tried to understand what Nintendo are doing, failed and then made huge leaps of logic to arrive at the "anti hardcore theory.

The argument that Nintendo wants to make loads of money is so cringe worthy it's not woerth responding too. Please tell me which company gives their products away for free, tell me which company doesn't want to make money.

The irony of this article is that it comes straight after another article about the yearning for arcades, throw away, simple fun games, basically pick up and play. So on the one hand people look through rose tinted glasses at the arcade scene but can't see the similarities with Wii's gaming philosophy - pick up and play.

Then there is the mini game argument, "Nintendo just want to make a load of mini games" Where's the evidence to support this, I'm talking about first party Nintendo games, I beleive the awful Mario Party is the only collection of mini gams Nintendo have released (Wii sports doesn't count because it is a totally unique piece of software that doesn't fall into any category( Mario Party is on it's 8th edition, so that means there were 7 other mini game fests way before the Wii came along. Not only that, but ALL games are essentially mini games plastered over with narrative, in all games you are basically doing a variation of the same thing over and over again from start to finish. A game doesn't suddenly evolve new gameplay in the middle of your playing session, it's a repeated game mechanic stretched over different locations - mini games with a different setting. What people are really saying is that they don't want games without narrative or detailed worlds, but they are quite happy to play the same game mechanics again and again. So yet again this is not something the Wii has brought about.

And I have to agree with Tron Knotts, it's a dumb question to begin with, which menas that we can't properly answer it because we have to base some of our ideas on the questions premise which is flawed to begin with.

The real question should be "Has any console other than the Wii, been given such a hard time in it's first year?" or "How is it that so called hardcore gamers don't understand the simple concept of making a games console with mainstream appeal?" or "Didn't the PS2 & Gameboy do this ages ago?"
CannibalCalvin 's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 18:37
CannibalCalvin
Who the fuck is Chris Furniss?
ChrisFurniss's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 18:45
ChrisFurniss
Well, I see the point you guys are trying to make about me harping on Nintendo, when you think I should be harping on third parties. The fact of the matter is that Nintendo is directly influencing these third parties in the way that makes them not want to release anything other than easy to produce Wii gimmick games.

Also I resent the assertion that "nintendo doesn't care about the hardcore" is just like "nintendo is kiddy". It's not. It's an informed observation, not a kneejerk reaction.

Sure, it's a bit alarmist to say that Nintendo is abandoning the hardcore. But it's still an issue. I used to be a huge Nintendo fanboy, and now I play my Xbox 360 more than anything else. Why? Because Nintendo (and the requisite third parties) just doesn't make games that I like anymore. And that INCLUDES Twilight Princess.

Now ask a question for next week!
Papapishu's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 19:02
Papapishu
How are direct download demos changing the way people buy games on consoles? Is the good stuff rising to the top while the shit sinks like a rock? What Demos have lingered on your 360 the longest?
theRat's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 19:08
theRat
Good answer. I have a question as well, why is the game industry so backwards worldwide? I mean, outside USA and Japan. Europe get's everything late, and don't get me started on the overinflation in latin america...
cjpkiller's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 19:11
cjpkiller
nintendo doesn't have good third party support, when they did get good third party support it was back in the nes and snes days

they wont get good third party support this gen either. third party games will be mini games, and they will not be fun for people like me who hate minigames and games that are disguised to be some adventure game but are really minigames.

nintendo fanboys go away.

also, gears of war was published by microsoft. so it is first party.

I am insanely disappointed by Nintendo this gen, more so than Sony.
I used to play Nintendo like a motherfucker back in the day, then the ps1 came out and all Nintendo had was Starfox, Ocarina, goldeneye, and perfect dark.

I don't buy systems for just good first party support. I wouldn't have a 360 if halo was just the norm, its had a ton of new IP's that for the most part have been really awesome and fun. and I wouldn't have a ps3 if it wasn't for the fact that mgs4 and ffxiii weren't coming out for it.

I buy a system for one developer.
Neonie's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 19:15
Neonie
"Who the fuck is Chris Furniss"

Judgeing by his name: He's someone who likes to set fire to things.

Answer: He's the guy who wants to be Jim Sterling but he's NOOOOOOOOOOT.

Ok ok, seriously though. This was a pretty good write up dude. Hope to see moar of this.

Also: I fit in the hardcore gamer age. Wewt!
glentennis's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 19:34
glentennis
I have a questione!

How soon do you think the world of gaming will go all digital download?
soon i think that everybody will have access to some form of internet connection, and then i wont have to deal with gamestop!

i think that everyone needs to stop talkin about "the big three" and start thinking about how many more great titles are coming to PS3 and 360. I'm a huge nintendo fanboy, but 3 games arent going to do it, and people need to realizew that the other consoles have a lot more than 3 big ones coming
zardoz's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 19:34
zardoz
Okay Chris, what I'm saying is what evidence do you or anyone who endorses this theory have?

We can all go on about our opinions, but the one universal leveller is evidence. You say Nintendo are influencing third parties, the evidence suggests otherwise. Third parties have treated the Wii as a half assed, easy cash generator for second hand watered down ideas. If third parties were making games that had the same visual imagination as Mario Galaxy or the same "out of the box" concepts as Wii sports then I would see where you are coming from. But as always, third parties are taking far too long to understand the direction Nintendo are going in.

Here's what actually happens, based on the evidence of the past decade - Nintendo make a console with certain software in mind, they know what their hardware is best suited to and why it was designed in a specific way. Third parties don't. Which is why third parties prefer the neutral hardware approach by Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo then release software to show third parties what the kind of games they are hoping they would make, an example is Phantom Hourglass on DS. An RPG/adventure game that only uses the stylus and yet works perfectly, an example of software that can only be done on the DS. No developer attempted to do this before, but I can assure you that they will now, so that is an example of Nintendo influencing third parties, and since the DS follows the exact same gaming philosophy as the Wii - pick up and play games which focus on human interface rather than historical knowledge of how videogames play, why have you singled out the Wii? If we use your logic then surely the DS is also to blame for the up take of Granny gamers to then.

So having established the cycle of Nintendo software leading game development trends for their systems, in what way have third parties followed Nintendo into mini game hell? How has Nintendo lead this genre of game design?

Nintendo doesn't make games that you like anymore? But that's personal taste not evidence, I don't like 90% of games regardless of who makes them, it doesn't mean games have gotten any worse, it could just mean that I'm changing. And here's another overlooked point, the arrogance of the hardcore gamer, they themselves were once newcomers, perhaps it was the Famicom or the Playstation that hooked them in, and at that moment of conversion they were completely oblivious to the fact that a whole generation of gamers before them had left the scene after the 80's due to games not being made for them anymore, it's the same thing happening again, every era thibks it's unique and new, it's not. Every era somthing gets lazily blamed for changes which were going to happen anyway, this era it's the Wii.

Twilight Princess was dissapointing, it lacked a soul and was obviuosly a rushed effort, but this is one game, a launch game at that, there is nothing else to really use an example because Nintendo haven't released anything, but I honestly beleive that Mario galaxy will be the Wii's unofficial launch, I believe that Nintendo under the leadership of Yamauchi would have delayed Wii's launch until Mario galaxy was finished, much in the same way that the N64 was delayed to accomodate Mario 64. Under Iwata though, Nintendo realise that getting the hradware out quickly is very important, the games will follow.

My prediction is that in 2008 these type of questions and arguments will look very old and tired, it's a simple case of third party's inability being blamed on Nintendo. The question should be "Why don't third parties understand the Wii?" that would reveal much more genuine problems within the industry.
A New Challenger's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 19:36
A New Challenger
I thought the field guide to fanboys was posted yesterday.

People forget that the first year the DS was out was filled with crap and half-assed GBA ports. Now it's a smash.

I agree that a new property from Nintendo aimed at the hardcore would be nice, as the ones they have are becoming terribly inbred and sequelized. However, it's early in this generation. We've already got Smash Bros., Metroid, and Mario coming this year.

Aa for third parties, I think they aren't going to abandon the hardcore by a longshot. We may be a smaller market, but we still have money. What's the likelyhood of your minigame collection selling well if it's the 39th one to come out this month? How much brain training are people willing to pay for? With the large install base for the Wii publishers/developers are flocking to it, and in order to compete and survive many are going to have to carve a niche. Come on, we've got Guilty Gear on the way; I doubt the Gamecube was ever under consideration to receive that game.

The new marketing may not be for me, but I'm not the one who needs to be convinced. I'm not worried.
Chris Taran's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 19:37
Chris Taran
@ cjpkiller
"also, gears of war was published by microsoft. so it is first party."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-party_developer

From Wikipedia:
"The defining characteristic is that a second-party developer is a company completely separate from the manufacturer, while first-party developers are considered to be a "division" of the console maker itself."

Gears was developed by Epic, which is not in any way owned by Microsoft (hence, not a division of MS). Microsoft published Gears and has released it exclusively for their platforms (360, Windows). Epic doing work under contract for Microsoft makes said game 2nd party. Hence Gears of War is a 2nd party title.



Grover G Grover's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 19:56
Grover G Grover
@Chris
"Also I resent the assertion that "nintendo doesn't care about the hardcore" is just like "nintendo is kiddy". It's not. It's an informed observation, not a kneejerk reaction.

Sure, it's a bit alarmist to say that Nintendo is abandoning the hardcore. But it's still an issue. I used to be a huge Nintendo fanboy, and now I play my Xbox 360 more than anything else. Why? Because Nintendo (and the requisite third parties) just doesn't make games that I like anymore. And that INCLUDES Twilight Princess."

It's limited to Twilight Princess you mean. You're playing your Xbox 360 NOW, over a year after its release. Nintendo's problem right now isn't a lack of hardcore games, it's a lack of games in general. Which is exactly what people said about the 360 for about a year after its release, and what people say about the PS3 right now as well. The "Nintendo just doesn't make games that I like anymore" statement holds no water when I know you are excited about both Super Mario Galaxy and Phantom Hourglass.

It's a kneejerk reaction.
GuitarAtomik's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 19:56
GuitarAtomik
I'm going to have to agree with the Fruniss here. Though, I'd say it's a little harsh to say Nintendo has "abandoned" the hardcore gamer, you have to admit that they don't care about them (us?) as much as they used to.

I know you're saying "What about SSBB, Metroid, Zelda, etc..." and to that I say: How many of those are new IPs? None. Nintendo isn't catering to the hardcore with those games, they are catering to the Nintendo fan base who demands them.

"Well Project Hammer and Disaster are new IPs." Well Project Hammer is on hold indefinitely. You can be in denial all you want but that basically means cancelled and besides, everyone who did get a chance to play it reacted with a collective "meh". What do we really know about Disaster? Very little. The last time they showed any media from it was early LAST year. That does bode well either when it's not even mentioned at the latest E3. You can say that neither MS nor Sony is doing any better 1st party wise, but neither of them really need to (well, Sony kind of does) since they have plenty of 3rd party support.

Nintendo is out there to make money. This does not make them evil, this just makes them a business. They're going to go where the money is and right now the money is with your Grandma. Wii Fit being the big reveal at E3 proves this. Face it. To Nintendo the casual market is the new born baby and the hardcore gamer has effectively become the older child who doesn't get as much attention. They still love you, just not as much.
Aaron Mxy Yost's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 19:59
Aaron Mxy Yost
Who the fuck is Chris Furniss? He's way geekier than you, and that's a good thing. Also, everyone should be listening to his podcast.

The way I see it, "Nintendo doesn't care about the hardcore" is kinda like the the claim "The 360 is only good if you like FPSes" or "The PS3 is only good as a Blu-ray player". There's some truth there but it's not the entire picture. Nintendo has struck gold with the non-traditional gamer, so it's no surprise they're currently focusing on that market. We'll still get hardcore games from them, but the Wii Fit announcement at e3 made it very clear that they won't be the number one priority for the near future. And I'm fine with that. I've continued to buy Nintendo systems over the years because I continue to love the characters and franchises I grew up on. But I know each system has it's strengths and weaknesses, and Nintendo isn't an exception. No single company is going to be everything for everyone. There'll be titles released over the next few years that will definitely make the Wii worthwhile. But traditional gamers are going to be missing out on a lot if they don't also own or have access to a 360 and PS3.
nilcam's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 20:14
nilcam
I think Nintendo has less influence on third parties than profit does. They see Brain Age do well and suddenly want to capitalize on the trend. This is a very common business practice as illustrated by the Transformers and Gobots of the 80s. Why would Nintendo want third parties making ripoffs of their IPs? That could cut into their sales and confuse their customers.

My list of upcoming hardcore games that are exclusive to the Wii:
Super Mario Galaxies
Metroid Prime Corruption
Super Smash Bros.
Guilty Gear Accent Core (2D fighters instantly qualify)
Nights
Blast Works: Fuse, Build, Destroy (shmups instantly qualify)
Fire Emblem: Goddess of Dawn
If this is what happens when Nintendo ignores the hardcore gamers, I hope they never pay attention to me again.

And no Guilty Gear on PS3 or 360, which means they equal fail.

nilcam's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 20:15
nilcam
And I forgot No More Heroes.
Bob Muir's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 20:35
Bob Muir
Wow...this is one of the most depressing responses I've heard yet. I'm bummed for the night now. Great.
Stratus's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 20:54
Stratus
I can't really say anything bad about Nintendo but they are FAR from supporting the hardcore gamers.

Galaxies is Mario......jumping on things......in 3d.....again. Not that I want my Mario doing much more(save for some kart and football , but I have seen this before, on each console.

Metroid Prime: Curroption looks like Prime and Echos. Not bad, but I have those games, give me more.

Same with Smash. If it aint broke don't fix it i guess.

I am a HUGE guilty gear fan and while AC looks cool, I am happy with it on my PSP and PS2.

Nights, one of the few games I am actually looking forward too. Its fucking Nights for crying out loud.

Blast and Fire Emblem look alright, but hardly strike me as must haves.

Then we hit No More Heros, quite possibly the hardcore gamers reason to buy a Wii. This is the real system seller if you don't like the above games.

But looking at this list, I see games Ive played before. Games Nintendo knows we will buy on name alone. Save for No More Heros, Nights and Smash, I don't want anything for my Wii, cause I have them on my Gamecube and 64 still.
Lukich's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 21:11
Lukich
"I know you're saying "What about SSBB, Metroid, Zelda, etc..." and to that I say: How many of those are new IPs? None. Nintendo isn't catering to the hardcore with those games, they are catering to the Nintendo fan base who demands them."

...

So now we're blaming Nintendo for catering to their own fan base, the people who got them where they are today? Next thing we'll be blaming them for accepting money for their products.
Fenx's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 21:30
Fenx
Every gaming company relys on one or two IP's except for those just starting out. How many Final Fantasy's have there been as of now? Gaming as of today has hit a rut because now gaming is... "mainstream". *shudder*

Now it's cool to play games. Games aren't games anymore. They're a fucking fad that will be skull-fucked by the same emo kids who recently ditched their music. My advice is to play nothing but pre 1997 games and the dreamcast. Send a message or something like that. Then in 2-3 years when grandma has carpal tunnel, it's safe to buy a recent game.
RWarrior1CO's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 21:35
RWarrior1CO
One problem I see with your analysis is that hard core gamers, in my opinion, aren't simply an age group or unique to an exclusive era--they're more of a mindset. And I believe the current generation of hard core gamers will simply be replaced by another one.
A New Challenger's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 22:05
A New Challenger
Hmm, questions for next week...
Q: What will it take for the AO rating to be legitimate and not just a death sentence?

Q: Why do the PAL territories get screwed over 99% of the time?

Q: Will Contra 4 rock your face off and then make sweet love to your immediate family?

I can't think of anything terribly interesting right now, but there're some starters.
questworld's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 22:17
questworld
I agree with Nilcam and Tron too (as well as anyone with the same mind on this). This is simply more of the alarmist mentality going about when it's concerning Nintendo. How many people can really say that there's sufficient developers out there actually making an effort in this area of the market? Nintendo's been on this traditional end for decades. So they're focusing more stuff on the non traditional gamer end, so what? It's relatively new and hardly tapped. A title like Wii Sports isn't gonna cover that end of the spectrum by itself. That's like saying Konami supported my interest on the Cube simply because they put a token effort in Twin Snakes while the PS2 got everything from the MGS series to the Silent Hill series, Contra, Ys, etc. And to think people have snobbishly exclaimed that the Wii's only selling due to Wii Sports and once these "non-gamers" are through they won't buy anything else.

"Nintendo is teh kiddy" then boom Wii brings in seniors to the limelight; "These people only bought Wii because of Wii Sports, the won't buy anything else" then boom Nintendo's bringing things out like Wii Fit; and now it's "Nintendo is abandoning the hardcore gamer." People raise the argument of games like Mario, Metroid, SSBB, Zelda, Fire Emblem, etc. and of course "they don't count because they're old franchises." I mean c'mon, Nintendo have done their part, on both ends of the spectrum, the question should be what are third-parties doing. It's not like they've made that great an effort in general when it was the Gamecube (not saying there wasn't more than enough games I fancied on that console, but there was obviously more emphasis on the Xbox and PS2, and now the 360 ans PS3).
ChrisFurniss's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 22:45
ChrisFurniss
I know that it took the xbox 360 a year to really pick up steam. I know that was the case with the DS as well. This is something I talk about all the time on the podcast. The problem is that the Wii has change the paradigm. They have opened up a brand new market with way more money than the core base could ever hope to throw at them. Look at Nintendo's response to people who say they don't care about the core gamer. At the E3 press conference (which I know you all physically attended, right?) Reggie responded with Pokemon. And Madden. And Metroid, which we've already seen.

The focus has changed, and it's probably not going to give us as satisfying an experience as we'd hope. Smash Brothers will be great. Metroid will be great. Mario Galaxy will be great. I am not saying don't go out and buy a Wii. Every system has great games, and you'd be missing out on a lot of awesome stuff if you "took sides". My theory is just that we are going to get more of the same. A great game every 3 months or so, while the rest of the time is filled with new ways to train your brain, or fantastically clever peripherals that tell your body mass index. ooh! maybe Wii Fit has some online functionality! Imagine your mom trying to comprehend friend codes. Yes, that will go well.
ChrisFurniss's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 22:46
ChrisFurniss
also i love you all.
ChrisFurniss's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 22:47
ChrisFurniss
except for Grover G Grover. That guy's a jerk.
questworld's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 22:51
questworld
And incidentally, H.A.M.M.E.R. looked (not necessarily refering to graphics here) average and uninspired, at least to me. I'd put Soul Calibur Legends on a complete redo much like I'd do with H.A.M.M.E.R.

Now Disaster on the other hand looks far more promising. Why people think Disaster looked bad but bemoan the possible cancelation of H.A.M.M.E.R. is beyond me.
Tristero's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 23:42
Tristero
Chris, I have a question! Pick me, pick me.

I happen to agree with your opinion on the "New" Super Mario Bros. for the DS. Could you please tell us in detail why you were so disappointed and what Nintendo would need to do better to make a new side-scrolling Mario game the right way? I scoured your website to see if you'd written about this earlier, but if you already have, please point me in the right direction. I'm totally sipping on the same haterade you are. Let's commiserate!
Jim Sterling's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/17/2007 23:46
Jim Sterling
It's funny that Nintendo should want to make money and yet ignores things that would give it big bucks. Like total mistreatment of the European market, like ignoring the power of online play for years and even then, handling it badly.

One can't hate on Nintendo for many of its current strategies -- it's printing cash right now and that is the goal of all corporations. Nintendo is succeeding. It could, however, be making even more and it isn't.

But as far as the "Nintendo doesn't care about us" thing, as with everything, it's the people lapping up lame-ass PS2 ports, uninspired waggle games and roms on the VC that you could download for free who are at fault here. Nintendo and the developers on the Wii are only doing what the consumer justifies them to do. The market wants mediocrity, mediocrity it shall have.

Not that I don't have problems with a lot of what Nintendo's doing, but really, fuck the customers who allow it.
Chris Taran's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/18/2007 00:15
Chris Taran
@Jim Sterling

What exactly Jim, would you say, is wrong with people legally obtaining older games (yeah, I'm talking about the VC)?

For reals yo. I'd love to hear this explanation. I think it would be tremendously entertaining.

skruloos's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/18/2007 00:22
skruloos
I kind of find it funny that the argument changed from "Nintendo is abandoning the hardcore" to "Nintendo isn't giving the hardcore new franchises."

Name me one company that if they had such hits as Mario, Metroid, or Pokemon wouldn't milk it to death. Sega, Capcom, EA, you name it. They find something that is guaranteed to print money and they'll run it into the ground. You don't think Microsoft wished that they had more than just Halo waiting in the wings to take advantage of? How they wished that Viva Pinata would turn out to be their Pokemon? Please, you'd be naive to think otherwise. Nintendo just happens to have some of the most recognizable franchises.

What it comes down to is really the 3rd Party software. But herein lies the problem of judging a system within its first year. Most people completely underestimated the Wii. Most developers that got on-board did so with ports. It wasn't until much later that developers started to take notice of the Wii. Problem is, yeah, the crowd that flocked to it are non-traditional gamers and that's where a lot of attention is going. Will this keep going? Who really knows?

One thing I do know is that the next few years will be very interesting for video games. With the rising costs of developing new properties, I see more and more companies falling back on tried and true franchises. Exclusive games will become rarer as turning a profit on a smaller userbase becomes more difficult. I think that Nintendo will have poised themselves in a very good position. Games built from the ground up for the Wii simply will never be the same experience on another system. Plus, as was pointed out, the larger disposable income of the Wii's audience will allow companies to recoup developing costs.

The downside to this, of course, will be more of a rise of ports and mini-game compilations. But I think that that will be the nature of the beast, regardless of the Wii's success.
questworld's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/18/2007 01:01
questworld
Well I personally won't buy any of these mini-game efforts or mere PS2 ports (unless of course they are a. well done ports, and b. ports of games I actually like, was curious to try but never played - i.e. FFX, FFXII, DQVIII, Kingdom Hearts I&II, Tale of the Abyss, MGS2, MGS3, Silent Hill, etc. - which is why I find games like Bully, Godfather, Tomb Raider Anniversary, RE4, etc. being ported to the Wii still worth it). I only had a Cube (I didn't get a PS2 for the same reason I can't bring myself to buy a 360). Now since there's just too few third-party games that has interested me due to the developers' general negligence of Nintendo fans I wouldn't be surprise that they'll blame people like me for not buying their games and just use the age old "people buy Nintendo systems only for Nintendo games" excuse. And so the cycle continues.
A New Challenger's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/18/2007 01:15
A New Challenger
@Chris T. and Sterling:

I just wrote up my first 'toid blog post about some gripes I have with the Virtual Console, as much as I've enjoyed it. It may come off as making some issues bigger than they are, but they are genuine concerns of mine that piss me off when I think of them too long.
cjpkiller's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/18/2007 04:16
cjpkiller
questworld...
you're retarded for not buying a ps2
it CLEARLY owned last gen
like
owned with an iron grip of doom.
there are some five thousand games for it.
you sir are a nintendo fanboy.
Burnt Meatloaf's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/18/2007 04:32
Burnt Meatloaf
Nintendo's strategy has always been maximum profit margin. They make so much money because they keep their operating costs to a minimum, so they keep all the profit they take in. They won't even meet demand because increasing Wii production, while entirely possible, would reduce their profit margin per system. Hey, if you sell millions of a product for $250, one or two cents of profit per system will add up!

Attack the market that has the lowest standards. Hardcore gamers know what they want, and that's expensive. Your grandma will play a game that costs $50 so she can wave a stick. Clueless parents will buy a glorified scale for $70 if the sales pitch includes getting kids to exercise (because balancing on one foot makes you lose lots of weight). Gamecube hardware for $250 is just fine if you're used to crappy VCR recordings of soap operas. Why is there no original content on VC? New games would interfere with Nintendo's ability to resell 10 to 20 year-old games (aka Classics). Why so little online play? Servers cost money, and it's better to make multiplayer games that encourage you to buy multiple controllers at $60 each. Who needs AI and CPU players, anyway? That might require programmers to have to work, think, and actually earn their profit.

But, hey, don't blame Nintendo. Ultimately, the fault lies with the consumer...

...and Sony, for fucking up so badly and making the Wii look appealing.
Dyson's Avatar - Comment posted on 08/18/2007 04:34
Dyson
I didn't bother to read any of the comments above me, because I don't care about them. All I care about is the fact that I'm reading Chris Mothafuckin' Furniss on my goddamn Dtoid!!!!!!!

It's not that I don't love you all, it's just that I man-love Chris even more.
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