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Analyst says Sony's motion control beats Natal photo

Where the hell do they hand out the professional analyst jobs, because I want me some of that. All you have to do is stand up, say something relatively inflammatory and the internet will quote your opinion on things. Case in point is gaming analyst Doug Creutz who has let his opinion be known on both Microsoft and Sony's upcoming motion control features for their new games. He sides with Sony, saying that their motion controls are "superior from a gaming perspective."

"Natal appeared to me to be a technological solution in search of a problem," Creutz said while speaking with Gamasutra. "Do I really care if I can navigate my Netflix queue without using a controller? I had a very hard time envisioning playing Modern Warfare 3 using Natal. By contrast, I had a very easy time envisioning it (and enjoying it) using Sony's control/motion capture scheme.

"Microsoft appears to be trying to steal casual gamers away from Nintendo, which is a difficult proposition given that you're essentially asking casual gamers to upgrade twice during the cycle (assuming they already own a Wii). In contrast, Sony is squarely targeting the core gamer market, which is what they need to be doing," he concluded.

I hate to say it, but I totally agree, and the line about a solution in search of a problem is spot on. I want to play serious games with my Wii Remote and I'm looking forward to playing serious games with Sony's controls if they work, but the more I see of Natal the less enthused I am about it as a method to do anything but jump around my living room.


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48 comments | showing # 1 to 48

TehBuLL's Avatar
TehBuLL at 06/27/2009 22:06
I agree with all of that. More analyst money for me plz!...anal..ist.
Jon B's Avatar
Jon B at 06/27/2009 22:08
Hmm, I was going to go off on the full blown LOLBIAS thing here, but after more thought, he's exactly right. Controlling with the camera simply isn't versatile enough to be the only controller of a game. Most games are going to need buttons etc anyway.
I think the Sony camp actually said something like "there needed to be buttons", and on that, they're exactly right.
I'll stick with my Xbox controller and keyboard. Beats wagglan any day of the week.
Mirax's Avatar
Mirax at 06/27/2009 22:12
Wow, I actually agree with what he says. Weird.
Brlito's Avatar
Brlito at 06/27/2009 22:16
Motion control needs buttons like MMOs need the keyboard and mouse combo.
Black Nexus's Avatar
Black Nexus at 06/27/2009 22:20
agreed, honestly metroid prime 3 showed me what motion controls can do when taken seriously and with sonys motion controls I can see stuff like that happening, with natal..............,not so much.
HiddenAHB's Avatar
HiddenAHB at 06/27/2009 22:25
C'mon people!
Let's be a little bit more enthusiastic about new technologies!
The Sony motion controller is just a digievolution of the Wiimote. Sony is trying to expand into the hardcore gamer market, but Microsof already have her chunk of the core gamers, so she is trying for the casual's.
Anyway, we should stop talking until they release the damn thing.
Haizeus's Avatar
Haizeus at 06/27/2009 22:28
I see NATAL being awesome with a controller/NATAL combo. Leaning around on your couch to peak out from cover would be pretty nifty, if only for the first five minutes. Personally, I think Sony has the best offering. At E3 they showed actual tech as opposed to MS's CG and "BAM, THERE IT IS!"

People keep saying that the age of exclusives is over. Perhaps the next generation's games will HAVE to be exclusive because each console has an original proprietary means to control your onscreen avatar.
mr spooky's Avatar
mr spooky at 06/27/2009 22:42
Natal and Mattel very similar names. The Power Glove was manufactured by Mattel.
Daxelman's Avatar
Daxelman at 06/27/2009 22:43
I'd be more inclined to think well of Sony's new controllers, if I wasn't sure that only one or 2 games were going to drop for it, and you'd never hear about it again.

Like the Playstation Eye.
wastedyears's Avatar
wastedyears at 06/27/2009 22:53
The Playstation Eye came out long before motion control was what everyone seemed to want. After the Wii has convinced everyone they want or need motion control it is a whole different story.

And Wikipedia lists these games as compatible w/Playstation Eye. I haven't counted them all, but it looks like there are more than one or 2.

2009

Eyedentify
EyePet
Fight Night Round 4
2008

Buzz!: Quiz TV (compatible with Playstation 2 EyeToy)
Burnout Paradise[14] (Used to share personal snapshot after winning/losing against other players online. (Also compatible with Playstation 2 EyeToy))
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas 2 [15] (Used to upload personal image for the character)
High Stakes Poker[16] (used to see others)
LittleBigPlanet (Used to create levels, also compatible with PlayStation 2 EyeToy)
FaceBreaker (Used to upload personal image for the character)
PES 2009 (Used to upload personal image for the character, 'Become a Legend' mode)
SingStar Vol. 2 (Used to record video and take snapshots and upload online)
2007

Aqua Vita/Aquatopia
Ember[10]
Mesmerize - January 17, 2008 (North America)[17]
Operation Creature Feature[18] - October 25, 2007[5]
The Eye of Judgment[2]
The Trials of Topoq
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 08[19]
Tori-Emaki
SingStar[20]
Sky Blue[10]
Snakeball[18]
PES 2008[21]
Naim Master's Avatar
Naim Master at 06/27/2009 22:55
Is it just me or is Destructoid the only site in the world that like the PS3 Motion Controller ? (I like it too)
ExpertPenguin's Avatar
ExpertPenguin at 06/27/2009 22:57
@Haizeus

Natal was at E3 behind closed doors, and yes, people actually got to try it out.
Hiltz's Avatar
Hiltz at 06/27/2009 23:08
Another problem for Natal: lack of tactile and force feedback.
Wedge's Avatar
Wedge at 06/27/2009 23:16
I see all of this failing horribly because no one really cares other than the market Nintendo has already hit.

Speaking of tactile and force feedback, Novint Falcon's are making a big push with some Valve support among others now. I can't see myself paying for one, but actually being able to physically interact with an environment like that is interesting and I think could be the one way to really do a proper sword fighting game.
Brlito's Avatar
Brlito at 06/27/2009 23:23
I think the PS3 will come out on top with this...

It'll come out and have huge support (unlike their first foray into this shit) but it won't completely replace the regular games.

It'll have all the strong points of the Wii (for all the moron casuals) without its weak points (have considerably tinier number of "GAMES"). The only downside is Ubisoft just porting over ALL of its IMAGINE and PETZ games over ~_~.

Before the Wiitards start telling me how NMH sold like 500000; FUCK OFF. I own a Wii too, and I've only booted it up a few times this year (The Conduit was good but eh).
ChronosWing's Avatar
ChronosWing at 06/27/2009 23:33
@Wastedyears

WAIT A FUCKING SECOND EYEDENTIFY IS ACTUALLY COMING OUT THIS YEAR!? I could of sworn that game was vaporware since we hadn't heard anything since e305... I remember it being one of the coolest game concepts I had seen at that show aside from the "ZOMG KILLZONE 2 IS/ISNT CG"
Takeshi's Avatar
Takeshi at 06/28/2009 00:20
I don't care about any motion controller. Not the one from Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo. I want to play games in my lazy big ass comfy chair practically laying in my back. I certainly don't want to swing any controllers around.
Genebeef's Avatar
Genebeef at 06/28/2009 00:32
did the analyst care to consider that perhaps natal wouldn't be solely based on controller-less controls? over at gizmodo they're wetting themselves over natal and one of their points was it was usable with physical controllers.

but nonetheless i find it lolable the analyst would like to play call of duty with wands - surprise, it's a wiimote painted black and call of duty is already on the wii. motion control in core games have been tried and are more frustrating than fun. no more heroes is awesome and in part it was due to the fact that it didn't base combat on motion controll; you tap A to swing your beam katana and finished your enemies with a small jerk in a given direction.
Holiday's Avatar
Holiday at 06/28/2009 00:50
More console wars...Meh.
Kalakaua's Avatar
Kalakaua at 06/28/2009 00:50
I'm glad. Here I thought I was alone in the thought that Natal isn't that impressive. Sure the tech and video looked cool but I really don't see myself doing it. I don't really believe, at least this generation, that I can be SO immersed into a game that I would talk to it like a real person. As was demonstrated in that video. Certainly a cool and lofty goal but I won't believe it until I see it.

Sony's tech though, I think was much more impressive. I can see myself utilizing that setup. Not to flame either side here but, am I the only one who thought the sony camera could most likely do what Natal is slated to do? It would just need the appropriate software to do it. As I just saw Natal being a camera and microphone, which the ps eye has. Hell the PS2 Eyetoy had that, much lower quality than the natal or ps eye was but still, it had it.
ZekeThePlumber's Avatar
ZekeThePlumber at 06/28/2009 01:04
I see a lot more promise in the Sony tech despite an unpolished tech demo showing at E3 but the only way I can see it fulfilling any mainstream gamer ideologies is if they come out with a add-on similar to the Wii nunchuk.

Sony has always been fond of taking pages out of Nintendo's book so I wouldn't at all be surprised if it happened.
KaliKot's Avatar
KaliKot at 06/28/2009 01:21
Who says that Natal cant be used in conjunction with the 360 controller anyway?

This is literally the next step in entertainment. You can have games where the controller and gestures work hand in hand and you dont have to waggle from that
pedrovay2003's Avatar
pedrovay2003 at 06/28/2009 01:32
As far as first impressions go, I completely agree. Natal seemed like a glorified EyeToy that Microsoft is going to use to try to take market share away from Nintendo, which is never going to happen. The PS3 motion controller looks like it takes everything good about the Wii Remote and the Natal camera and combines then.

Sony learned that controller-less games don't work, and they pointed that out during their demonstration. And as far as people saying Natal can be used in conjunction with the 360 controller, that's probably true -- But then what's the point of having the camera?
pedrovay2003's Avatar
pedrovay2003 at 06/28/2009 01:54
@Kalakaua

I thought the same thing about the Eye. It's almost definitely capable of doing what Natal can do.
funran's Avatar
funran at 06/28/2009 02:41
I kinda agree with this guy though, i want to hold something, simple as that.
Haole Boi X's Avatar
Haole Boi X at 06/28/2009 03:02
well I disagree, what he is not noting is Natal will work with objects, hold a steering wheel, a baseball bat, a gun or a sword if you like, now that's immersion
dgonchild's Avatar
dgonchild at 06/28/2009 03:03
I also agree with what was said in the article(and with what most people commented here).
DrXym's Avatar
DrXym at 06/28/2009 04:24
The biggest issue with Natal is its going to be horrifically compute expensive and will have to be incredibly forgiving to compensate for its inaccuracy. I think the two of these instantly rule out any conventional video game experience. Natal fans will have resign themselves to party games and casual titles because it really can't cope with much more than that.

Not that I think Sony's solution is perfect but its very clear that its 1:1 game play and its lower computation requirements (find the sphere and estimate its distance) make it much more suitable for more complex games. There is still an overhead though and I believe that even if it did appear in a Modern Warfare title that something would have to give in the experience, such as resolution or framerate.
Zantetsuken's Avatar
Zantetsuken at 06/28/2009 04:47
I have a niggling feeling that Natal will fail due to its ambition. Plus MS seem to think that if they put waggle on their consoles then the Wii userbase will just flock over to the 360.

I enjoy playing my games with a controller, motion control (even on the Wii, which has the market cornered) is too erratic most of the time.

Natal also reminds of the Sega Activator, which sucked so badly.
hpv's Avatar
hpv at 06/28/2009 05:25
How is that inflammatory? It makes all the sense in the world. Sony's device (theoretically, since none of us have seen it's final form, probably including the people designing it) takes the Wii remote the next step forward in fidelity. Regardless of how much waggle crap and tacked on IR use there has been with Wii it has at least been proven as a gameplay device that opens up types of control not possible with a standard controller.

On the other hand the input methods provided by Natal have already been shown to offer nothing outside of an extremely limited range of applications, all of which are gimmicks. Regardless of fidelity, it's just an EyeToy all over again. And idiots thinking that you'll make a motion with your hand to throw a grenade as if that were a good idea, haven't we learned ANYTHING from the irrational exuberance we saw around the Wii? Turning your head to move the camera in game? How are you going to look at the screen while turning away from it, son? Please.

It's generous to say Natal is a solution in search of a problem. Sony's device is at least addressing a problem that not only makes sense before an implementation, but has an implementation that has shown to work, if imperfectly with in the products already released to market.
Ronsauce's Avatar
Ronsauce at 06/28/2009 06:50
The thing with Natal is...you can use a controller with it if you want/need to. Couple that with the rest of its abilities, and I don't see how Sony's motion controller attempt is better....or on even ground for that matter.

Regardless, I'm still only viewing each as forays into the casual market. I'd not want to control any of my games with either.
Professor Pew's Avatar
Professor Pew at 06/28/2009 07:27
I agree with Ronsauce here. You could still hold a controller while making chainsaw slashes to cut up people in Gears of War if you'd want to, in theory. Both are just technologies created for casual motion control, not hardcore gaming. If you can choose between using either technology or a controller, of course you are gonna use a controller.

I think many casual players who are sick of the Wii may try Natal if the pricing is better than for the Dildo Wand. It looks like something that would be easier to pick up for your mom or granny. We won't see any good or "hardcore" game for either tech in years anyway, so whatever :)
Calitri101's Avatar
Calitri101 at 06/28/2009 08:31
Well call me old school but for me anything other than a mouse and a keyboard is not serious gaming. I can tolerate console controls but definetely some physycal hardware is needed for responsiveness shake.
Having said that, I think Natal is vastly superior than Sony's thingy and will undoubtly have a higher appeal to the casuals.
Miguelcar808's Avatar
Miguelcar808 at 06/28/2009 09:01
I'm just happy that PS3 won an argument.
B-Radicate's Avatar
B-Radicate at 06/28/2009 09:31
While I don't necessarily agree and can't until I get significant hands-on time with both, I'm personally looking forward to Sony's wands more based solely on the fact that I am and owner of a projection system.

I do all my gaming on a projector, so using Natal to jump around in front of a sensor will be impossible if I'm blocking my screen.

I know I'm in a huge minority here, but it's true. Just glad I own all three systems, I guess.
SephirothX's Avatar
SephirothX at 06/28/2009 10:27
I agree. And in all honesty, the more of Natal i see in action the more problems I have with it. PS3 has been trying to bend/break the controller limitation for a while now (PS Eye, Sixaxis) and the new device we saw at E3 is really the best out of the three consoles so far.
Chronic Logic's Avatar
Chronic Logic at 06/28/2009 10:54
I tried to comment on the article, but I got distracted by the boobalicious picture of the "EA ripe for takeover?" article after the jump.
Comrade Snarky's Avatar
Comrade Snarky at 06/28/2009 11:03
Aren't "core gamers" the same sort of folks that have been disparaging the very idea of motion control for the last several years? Sony is banking heavily on its own fans being hypocrites, apparently.
Elsa's Avatar
Elsa at 06/28/2009 11:06
eh... I still see most games being played with a controller. People can manipulate sticks much faster than they can move their arms (or vocalize a command) so while I see the tech being used for party or exercise games, I just don't see it being used for core games.
HiddenAHB's Avatar
HiddenAHB at 06/28/2009 12:44
If the Natal fail's here, i'm sure that a lot of japs will buy to have some fun with Milo.
TakeABullet's Avatar
TakeABullet at 06/28/2009 12:46
I play video games so I can sit on my ass and do things I would normally never be capable of.

Natal makes you actually do those things, which defeats the purpose. If your flipping around your living room on a fake skateboard, go outside and learn how to actually skateboard.
-PL-'s Avatar
-PL- at 06/28/2009 15:02
Natal's gonna be like the Wii, PS3's motion control will be like playing an actual game.
bastardmaster's Avatar
bastardmaster at 06/28/2009 15:32
yeah i don't think microsoft or sony are delusional enough(well, maybe sony) to think they can compete with the Wii in earnest. i think they just want people that already have their console to not buy a Wii.

I agree that I think Sonys solution would be more fun and functional. Also that people could see it as a BRD player, game console and 'just like that Wii thing the Jonses have'. They still better pack one in on top of dropping that price.

If history is doomed to repeat itself they'll both fail miserably anyway. People will never enjoy paying for more equipment for things they already own, and developers will never like investing in games that can only be played with said equipment.
Crunshii's Avatar
Crunshii at 06/28/2009 18:58
I agree with this. Besides, Microsoft is headed on the correct direction. They have the core market well, Sony is playing catch up, So MS is working on getting the casual gamers to switch from the Wii to Xbox.

In the future, all MS need to catch up to Sony is come up with the same controller that sony makes, and bam, MS will surpass sony on that sense.
akathatoneguy's Avatar
akathatoneguy at 06/28/2009 21:53
I love that the gaming community as a whole is so oversensitive that merely saying that you think one thing is better than another (and giving reasons for that opinion) is considered inflammatory. On several gaming sites, I also saw people flipping out because some 9 yr old pseudo genius said that he thinks games are a waste of time. Who really cares? btw I'm not faulting Matthews choice of words, but rather the fact that they're accurate because so many gamers ARE so hyper-sensitive.
Uniquenamehere's Avatar
Uniquenamehere at 06/29/2009 03:00
mmm pretty sure one of the guys on that xbox live program used natal and was using it with a racing game not just "gimmicks".
ChaosTeaCup's Avatar
ChaosTeaCup at 06/29/2009 05:26
Tup, I think Sony's version of wagglewanking sounds the best. But I think [i]all[i] of it is a bunch of arse, and I have no interest in motion sensing games at all. I played the Wii once, and detested it. It's not the sort of gaming I'm after. I actually think that the advent of motion sensing will push the quality of games which use it on the PS3 and the Xbox backwards, as compromises will have to made to facilitate the waggling of a wankstick, or the sweep of a palm. I want it all to stay on the Wii. Where it belongs.
JASONSPAZ's Avatar
JASONSPAZ at 07/18/2009 02:22
WE NEED A LIGHT SABER BATTLE GAME!!
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