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Lack of identity and coherent marketing has been their problem since the launch of the PS3 (and the lead-up to it). Not sure why, that's always baffled me. I think it might just be the lack of skill in marketing in countries outside of Japan.
I never understand when people compare Vita to the tablets. The two don't really have anything in common. At this point, I'd rather have a tablet though, because at least its not skimping on standard, expected features.
agree with Jim playstation 3 wasnt exciting when it came out its like it never cares about what actual gamers want like strong gaming lineup and mp options. its slow sales 5 years later real starting to show that
It seems like Sony is gradually figuring out that they need to stop marketing their devices as multimedia centers and focus on the core feature of playing games (and, for the PS3, watching Blu-Ray movies). The XMB interface itself is a big part of the problem, as things like "music" and "photos" get equal prominence in the UI to "games" and "video" (perhaps even more, as you have to scroll *past* those things to get to the games section).
Microsoft's latest dashboard update seems to be making the same mistake.
Microsoft's latest dashboard update seems to be making the same mistake.
They need to focus the message, which in the Vita and PS4's case needs to be: "this thing plays games, hard, fast, balls to the wall eye popping gorgeous games." Can they add in other features like web. Music playback, etc.? Sure, just don't waste advertising on them at the start.
Make me want to play games on the thing, make me believe its the best system because it has the power, library, and support to be my best option.
Market it like the genesis and the way sonic games were marketed. Flash, screen caps, video, power. Don't try to be my "everything" device.
They did that with the PS3, and I bought it because it was an excellent blue ray option, and I never play games on it. I just don't think of it that way. The 360 and PC won that segment of my mind this round. That's where I'm invested as an online community person, and not on the PS3, and that also another huge component.
They literally need to explode out the gate like an over the top 80's action flick and energize people about games, or spend the next cycle just simmering like this last one.
Make me want to play games on the thing, make me believe its the best system because it has the power, library, and support to be my best option.
Market it like the genesis and the way sonic games were marketed. Flash, screen caps, video, power. Don't try to be my "everything" device.
They did that with the PS3, and I bought it because it was an excellent blue ray option, and I never play games on it. I just don't think of it that way. The 360 and PC won that segment of my mind this round. That's where I'm invested as an online community person, and not on the PS3, and that also another huge component.
They literally need to explode out the gate like an over the top 80's action flick and energize people about games, or spend the next cycle just simmering like this last one.
@ Keres
THERE was nothing wrong with latest dashboard update SO dont know whatcha talkin about MC still knows how to generate excitement this gen
THERE was nothing wrong with latest dashboard update SO dont know whatcha talkin about MC still knows how to generate excitement this gen
There's nothing wrong with Sony wanting to be a million things but it has to show one angle more prominently then the others.
Xbox is the online shooter console for dudes, Nintendo is the family friendly brand and what is Playstation? The "everything" brand?
It is a novelty but Sony needs to come up with something else. Like it kind of did with the PS1/2, it was the cool, mature brand, and now they can't play that angle anymore.
Xbox is the online shooter console for dudes, Nintendo is the family friendly brand and what is Playstation? The "everything" brand?
It is a novelty but Sony needs to come up with something else. Like it kind of did with the PS1/2, it was the cool, mature brand, and now they can't play that angle anymore.
Honestly, ALL of the top 3 brands are lacking any sort of excitement right now as consumers start thinking already about the next-gen. Big-name exclusives are going to carry these systems until the next gen releases and Sony has the strongest lineup of those (imho) so 2012 should be a good year for them. With PS2 some of my all-time favorite games EVER came out close to the end of that generation's cycle (despite it continuing to sell well far into this gen).
The Playstation Brand is in Fact so weak, that still a lot of older people call every new console the "new playstation".
Besides, the "Brand" has only problems in the US. In Europe and Japan it is way more succesfull than the XBox. The Sales difference are 2 Millions between PS3 and X360 and the system was one year less on the market than the Box. So I think Microsoft has to worry, not Sony.
Besides, the "Brand" has only problems in the US. In Europe and Japan it is way more succesfull than the XBox. The Sales difference are 2 Millions between PS3 and X360 and the system was one year less on the market than the Box. So I think Microsoft has to worry, not Sony.
"I agree with Cole completely about the Vita, which perfectly encapsulates Sony's biggest issue -- the lack of an identity. Its products are marketed haphazardly, confusing customers over what their primary functions are, and mixed messages don't make people excited."
Or, Sony could just slash 1/3 of the price and see an influx of new consumers, as Nintendo did with the 3DS.
The Vita's biggest enemy is its price. When both handhelds were sold at the same price, people felt like they would be getting an amazing bargain with the near-infinitely technologically superior Vita (and they actually still are, as its sold at a loss). Nintendo's price adjustment changed that perspective for many people by offering a far more affordable entry fee, and the system is now considered successful, from what I gather, almost entirely because of it.
I can honestly say which bargain held a much greater appeal to me as a gamer when both were priced at $250, and if both were priced at or around $170, again, there would be no contest in my mind.
Or, Sony could just slash 1/3 of the price and see an influx of new consumers, as Nintendo did with the 3DS.
The Vita's biggest enemy is its price. When both handhelds were sold at the same price, people felt like they would be getting an amazing bargain with the near-infinitely technologically superior Vita (and they actually still are, as its sold at a loss). Nintendo's price adjustment changed that perspective for many people by offering a far more affordable entry fee, and the system is now considered successful, from what I gather, almost entirely because of it.
I can honestly say which bargain held a much greater appeal to me as a gamer when both were priced at $250, and if both were priced at or around $170, again, there would be no contest in my mind.
i think $onys biggest prob right now is that it cant hit up the mature online competitve shooter market like MC can and dats whre $ is this gen with 360 strong online and Wii has kiddie platformin market covered so $ony only has its gimmicky Vita like jim sayd earler and Move to push in 2012
I think Sony believes that their products sell themselves . They think their shit is so cool that people will just buy without a second thought. Sony needs to learn some humility to earn my business. Also do something about the fanboys.
I say a $500 million dollar ad campaign with Marcus Rivers and Kevin Butler will put Sony back into the collective hearts and minds of the people...
I agree that his comments on the Vita are dead on. By all accounts, I *should* be interested in that system, but I'm just not. Whether that's because I already have a PS3 and don't need an "on-the-go" variant, or just want cheaper, simpler entertainment for when I'm not at home, either way I just don't feel inclined to buy one anytime soon.
As far as brand identity goes, I think MS and Nintendo have done a much better job in positioning their consoles as "fun for the whole family!" Sony has remained a "gamer's console" in the eyes of consumers, despite that they do have software that appeals to a broad audience. They just haven't pushed that image as effectively in their marketing.
As far as brand identity goes, I think MS and Nintendo have done a much better job in positioning their consoles as "fun for the whole family!" Sony has remained a "gamer's console" in the eyes of consumers, despite that they do have software that appeals to a broad audience. They just haven't pushed that image as effectively in their marketing.
@Cudgeon
Sony is far from a healthy brand everywhere in the world. At least a decade of pride based infighting, and nearly as long with piss poor management have absolutely decimated Sony's market share across all its divisions. Sony seems to be incapable of moving as a cohesive unit, and the Playstation brand has suffered as a result. Do you think it was the gaming division's idea to market the PS3 as a home entertainment device primarily for the first year of its life?
No, too many people within Sony wanted to piggyback on the PS3 when everyone assumed it would retain the PS2's market share, so the machine lacked an identity, IMO.
Any time someone says Sony is not in trouble, I like to bring up the fact that Sony has been hemorrhaging money for 4-5 years now, and their most profitable venture is life insurance.
Sony is far from a healthy brand everywhere in the world. At least a decade of pride based infighting, and nearly as long with piss poor management have absolutely decimated Sony's market share across all its divisions. Sony seems to be incapable of moving as a cohesive unit, and the Playstation brand has suffered as a result. Do you think it was the gaming division's idea to market the PS3 as a home entertainment device primarily for the first year of its life?
No, too many people within Sony wanted to piggyback on the PS3 when everyone assumed it would retain the PS2's market share, so the machine lacked an identity, IMO.
Any time someone says Sony is not in trouble, I like to bring up the fact that Sony has been hemorrhaging money for 4-5 years now, and their most profitable venture is life insurance.
@Jimboxxx
In a weird, backwards sort of way I understand what you're saying about the "mature online competitive shooter market", but I feel like the words mature and online don't belong in the same description. Seriously, online multiplayer shooter populations are at least 75% 12 years old, with 14% adults that act like they're 12. Then there's the 1% of people who are actually playing the game like normal people.
In a weird, backwards sort of way I understand what you're saying about the "mature online competitive shooter market", but I feel like the words mature and online don't belong in the same description. Seriously, online multiplayer shooter populations are at least 75% 12 years old, with 14% adults that act like they're 12. Then there's the 1% of people who are actually playing the game like normal people.
So I guess that's why the PS3 is now out selling the 3shitty. Honestly though consoles have never ever been anywhere as exciting as PC.
OneRed I think you exaggeratting a little. Indeed Sony's financials aren't great but hemorrahging? Sony is certainly not on the brink of collapse.
If anything Nintendo has more of a chance to die, their only venture is in videogames. If the Wii U fails to the mark, along with the 3DS in the long term, they be could cease to exist.
If anything Nintendo has more of a chance to die, their only venture is in videogames. If the Wii U fails to the mark, along with the 3DS in the long term, they be could cease to exist.
OneRed I think you exaggeratting a little. Indeed Sony's financials aren't great but hemorrahging? Sony is certainly not on the brink of collapse.
If anything Nintendo has more of a chance to die, their only venture is in videogames. If the Wii U fails to the mark, along with the 3DS in the long term, they be could cease to exist.
If anything Nintendo has more of a chance to die, their only venture is in videogames. If the Wii U fails to the mark, along with the 3DS in the long term, they be could cease to exist.
@shotgun: well said.
@jimboxx: kinect and the whole media hub push say hello. I love my xbox, but they have been pushing the family/media center thing for two years now.
@jimboxx: kinect and the whole media hub push say hello. I love my xbox, but they have been pushing the family/media center thing for two years now.
Didn't Sony market the PS3 in such a way to get a tax break? Thought I read that somewhere.
As for Sony in general, their shares have lost 50% of their value in 2011 alone. In fact, OneRed is right, for the past nine years, the business that has accumulated more profit than the rest of Sony combined is financial services, mostly life insurance, with some auto insurance and banking.
Indeed, the once great tech-giant has seen better days.
As for Sony in general, their shares have lost 50% of their value in 2011 alone. In fact, OneRed is right, for the past nine years, the business that has accumulated more profit than the rest of Sony combined is financial services, mostly life insurance, with some auto insurance and banking.
Indeed, the once great tech-giant has seen better days.
I personally like Sony's advertising (or lack of). I don't need them to push there products in my face constantly like *ehemm Microsoft and there ceaseless GOW3 Ads on TV.
@muttonface
This article sums it up rather nicely. They've been losing money for 3 years, were becoming less and less profitable for many years before that, and their stock price recently hit a 24 year low. If anything, I'm understating Sony's troubles right now.
This article sums it up rather nicely. They've been losing money for 3 years, were becoming less and less profitable for many years before that, and their stock price recently hit a 24 year low. If anything, I'm understating Sony's troubles right now.
Believe me Sony , just give money to Konami and tell them to make Suikoden VI. I promised a 10 million copy sell only on Asia
I think people are starting to get the idea. I work part-time at a Gamestop, and every single time I come in, at least half a dozen customers say "Hey, I've been thinking about switching from 360 to PS3." So there's interest. There's curiosity. PS3 owners already know it is a great system, they just have to show others why it is, too.
(Of course, I'm an omni-gamer, so why not have it all? Get the best of EVERY world!)
(Of course, I'm an omni-gamer, so why not have it all? Get the best of EVERY world!)
It's just hard to believe that people are so stupid that they can't figure out what the Vita is about. I guess it's possible though.
Guys, the PS2 was made to only play games, it had the best launch line up ever. It wasn't a trojan horse for playing movies, and Xbox Live didn't exist until the Xbox 360, hell, online gaming on consoles didn't exist until the Xbox 360 period. That's y PS3 and $ony phayulz now.
*snaps back to reality*
599 US DOLLARS
*snaps back to reality*
599 US DOLLARS
@Hugh G Rection
I kind of agree with you, though advertising has it's place every game add that is multiplatform has the damn Xbox360 thing behind it.
I have only bought a single 360 game, Alan Wake :P
I kind of agree with you, though advertising has it's place every game add that is multiplatform has the damn Xbox360 thing behind it.
I have only bought a single 360 game, Alan Wake :P
Sigh.. this proves again why "anal" is in the word analyst, because many of them are, in fact, assholes.
This guy's really no different and he just proves a monkey (or even I) could do the job. So let me help you out there Chim Chim:
"The PS3 is an incredibly robust system with a great content library. Unfortunately for Sony, not all consumers seem to have gotten the word,"
No, what happened is people got the word fine, only when Sony sold it the first time, and the years after, they sold it wrong. Completely wrong. And alienated a whole lot of people. Then they let it all go thinking those people will still come to the yard, but those people -probably- mostly forgot. The whole problem wasn't getting the word out, not in the least, it was how it was done and then how the subject was more or less completely dropped. When Sony picked up their hat and asked for forgiveness with the price drop, they also stepped up their advertising for the PS3 greatly, and look where that's gotten them: Exactly where they wanted to be all along.
"The Vita also looks like a strong potential contender as it has a reasonable price point now in the time of expensive tablet systems. However, features like a 3G option may only confuse consumers."
Does he even know the product? Both have touch screens (but so does a 3DS and in hindsight I fail to remember it being compared to tablets all that often -Vita gets compared to it EVERY OTHER DAY), both MAY play games.. Doesn't make them one in the same.
At the same time, way to have zero faith in the customer dude. People will know about the 3G if they manage to do a search with the words "Vita" and "3G" in the phrasing. Theres not much to even know about it and I can help absolutely every customer having an issue in one fell swoop: The 3G in the Vita is going to be $50 worth of highly limited, outdated, tech that will have little to no functionality or worth, that you'll need to spend even more money on for a Vita-only dedicated data plan, with a single company that is both complete shit, and may not even cover your area all that well, let alone at all.
There. Does that help stave confusion any? Because its pretty simple.
"It looks like no matter what it will take a while for Sony to build momentum around the Vita, but the key challenge in 2012 is to bring back consumer excitement around the Sony and PlayStation brand."
What proof is there that theres little to no momentum already? From the looks of it, the gaming community has been abuzz with this thing since it was shown off at E3 7 months ago. Pretty amazing sales figures, even if they've waned off, for a country like Japan, which Dale detailed to be a poor indicator of anything, THE SINGLE SOLITARY COUNTRY TO HAVE THE OBJECT YET, seems to be pretty good momentum to start too.
As for the Playstation Brand, Sony could drop that tomorrow and call it the Cracka Ass Vita and people would flock to the thing. The Cracka Ass home console could come out a year from tomorrow and surely people would buy it up so they can yell at people on the internet because their Cracka Ass is better then anything Microsoft's doing. People don't give a shit about the Playstation branding --They care about Sony.
Sony has an identity, and the PS brand plays right into that without skipping a beat, the PS branding doesn't need a separate identity: They're often expensive, but highly advanced, and polished, technology makers who have had something of an ego about themselves, right down to their moronic western spokesperson, but they seem to be getting their act together in many ways.
Any one who's spent any time looking into electronics -any electronics- over the last.. I don't know.. 20-30 years should know this by now.
This guy's really no different and he just proves a monkey (or even I) could do the job. So let me help you out there Chim Chim:
"The PS3 is an incredibly robust system with a great content library. Unfortunately for Sony, not all consumers seem to have gotten the word,"
No, what happened is people got the word fine, only when Sony sold it the first time, and the years after, they sold it wrong. Completely wrong. And alienated a whole lot of people. Then they let it all go thinking those people will still come to the yard, but those people -probably- mostly forgot. The whole problem wasn't getting the word out, not in the least, it was how it was done and then how the subject was more or less completely dropped. When Sony picked up their hat and asked for forgiveness with the price drop, they also stepped up their advertising for the PS3 greatly, and look where that's gotten them: Exactly where they wanted to be all along.
"The Vita also looks like a strong potential contender as it has a reasonable price point now in the time of expensive tablet systems. However, features like a 3G option may only confuse consumers."
Does he even know the product? Both have touch screens (but so does a 3DS and in hindsight I fail to remember it being compared to tablets all that often -Vita gets compared to it EVERY OTHER DAY), both MAY play games.. Doesn't make them one in the same.
At the same time, way to have zero faith in the customer dude. People will know about the 3G if they manage to do a search with the words "Vita" and "3G" in the phrasing. Theres not much to even know about it and I can help absolutely every customer having an issue in one fell swoop: The 3G in the Vita is going to be $50 worth of highly limited, outdated, tech that will have little to no functionality or worth, that you'll need to spend even more money on for a Vita-only dedicated data plan, with a single company that is both complete shit, and may not even cover your area all that well, let alone at all.
There. Does that help stave confusion any? Because its pretty simple.
"It looks like no matter what it will take a while for Sony to build momentum around the Vita, but the key challenge in 2012 is to bring back consumer excitement around the Sony and PlayStation brand."
What proof is there that theres little to no momentum already? From the looks of it, the gaming community has been abuzz with this thing since it was shown off at E3 7 months ago. Pretty amazing sales figures, even if they've waned off, for a country like Japan, which Dale detailed to be a poor indicator of anything, THE SINGLE SOLITARY COUNTRY TO HAVE THE OBJECT YET, seems to be pretty good momentum to start too.
As for the Playstation Brand, Sony could drop that tomorrow and call it the Cracka Ass Vita and people would flock to the thing. The Cracka Ass home console could come out a year from tomorrow and surely people would buy it up so they can yell at people on the internet because their Cracka Ass is better then anything Microsoft's doing. People don't give a shit about the Playstation branding --They care about Sony.
Sony has an identity, and the PS brand plays right into that without skipping a beat, the PS branding doesn't need a separate identity: They're often expensive, but highly advanced, and polished, technology makers who have had something of an ego about themselves, right down to their moronic western spokesperson, but they seem to be getting their act together in many ways.
Any one who's spent any time looking into electronics -any electronics- over the last.. I don't know.. 20-30 years should know this by now.
@Captain of the Zanarkand
You might wanna speak to Activision about that, Crash Bandicoot has never been Sony's Intellectual Property.
Oh, by the way, Nintendo, if you're reading this, bring back Jet Force Gemini.
You might wanna speak to Activision about that, Crash Bandicoot has never been Sony's Intellectual Property.
Oh, by the way, Nintendo, if you're reading this, bring back Jet Force Gemini.
@ mix "I have only bought a single 360 game, Alan Wake :P"
ITS a good game BUT only one? what teh hell is wrong with u
ITS a good game BUT only one? what teh hell is wrong with u
I think they need to focus marketing on the "show" not they "explain". They need to show people doing the think they want then consumer to do.
Look someone with a Vita on a bus or at lunch at a cafe table --- they are playing games then pressing a button to pause to surfing the web or play a song. [That shows what it does, how it does it, and where people can use it.]
Look someone with a Vita --- they want a game or movie...look as they use the PSN Store to buy a game to enjoy [That shows it has a store...duh!!]
Basically look at how Apple markets and shows off its iPad...do that...because guess the "eeF" what...that what a Vita can do for the most part....games, music, movies, web browsing!!! It is not rocket science!!!
Look someone with a Vita on a bus or at lunch at a cafe table --- they are playing games then pressing a button to pause to surfing the web or play a song. [That shows what it does, how it does it, and where people can use it.]
Look someone with a Vita --- they want a game or movie...look as they use the PSN Store to buy a game to enjoy [That shows it has a store...duh!!]
Basically look at how Apple markets and shows off its iPad...do that...because guess the "eeF" what...that what a Vita can do for the most part....games, music, movies, web browsing!!! It is not rocket science!!!
Nintendo isn't successful just because of their family friendly vibe, but because of their simplicity; everyone knows exactly what a Nintendo system does and why to buy one. It is quintessentially a game machine: nothing more. And that is all a game machine needs to be.
It also doesn't hurt that all their consoles start out with few variants, extra features or skus and only build up after the market understands that its main feature and sole purpose is as a gaming machine.
It also doesn't hurt that all their consoles start out with few variants, extra features or skus and only build up after the market understands that its main feature and sole purpose is as a gaming machine.
@BoomingEchoes
Read the article I linked. Sony is far from the "people will flock to them regardless" company they once were.
Read the article I linked. Sony is far from the "people will flock to them regardless" company they once were.
Who gives a fuck about branding and loyalty. Its all about the games for me, and the quality of hardware. And right now/always has been is sony. For the last 3 generatios including psp I havnt run into any hardware problems nor have I ever been bored with their software. God I'd be bored of halo and gears because that's all you people be playing on your xbox. Hell I'd be bored with uncharted, resistance and god of war if it wasn't for the many other exclusive offerings.
""Hello! I'm your average consumer! I've never seen a handheld videogame device before so i have no fucking idea what a Playstation Vita is or does. Also its not trending on twitter this week and i haven't seen a whimsical, self-aggrandizing commercial for it. Furthermore, it doesnt have an ''i'' in front of it and my favorite celebrity hasn't been paid to tell me i need one yet. IM TERRIBLY CONFUSED''
This is what Sony is up against ^^^^^
This is what Sony is up against ^^^^^
The problem with Sony is that their products require more intelligence to appreciate than the most dumb consumers have.
Agreed, that’s always been a problem with Sony, I think part of the reason is that their “big hitters” change with every console generation, with the PS1 they had Resident Evil and Tomb Raider, the PS2 had Gran Turismo among others, and now the PS3 has LBP and Killzone and what have you. Whereas Microsoft and Nintendo will always have their Halo and Mario games with every system.
The only constants they had were Metal Gear and Final Fantasy and that’s over now. Personally I find it good that they change things up but I think that lack of any “icons” doesn’t make for a unified campaign.
The only constants they had were Metal Gear and Final Fantasy and that’s over now. Personally I find it good that they change things up but I think that lack of any “icons” doesn’t make for a unified campaign.
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