surf dtoid with 
Rising (10+)
People you follow
Ok fine, but keep value to the customer in mind too. Indie games tend to do that well so I'm not worried or anything, but just... ya know. Don't charge me 20 bucks for an hour long game, k?
People will pay ten bucks for a movie ticket where at most it's three hours of entertainment, and expect ten dollar to get at least six hours of game. There might be a reason or we might just be spoiled by 200 hour RPGs.
IMO the problem is not the length - but the price tag. I'm sorry, but paying $60 for a 8 hour game that I will probably never play again just seems like too much for me. Of course, this is not the case with Amnesia.
@Telephis
Don't compare movies and games, they're two different things. By that logic we should be comparing to pricing of books and such as well. I spend weeks on some books cheaper than a movie ticket.
Don't compare movies and games, they're two different things. By that logic we should be comparing to pricing of books and such as well. I spend weeks on some books cheaper than a movie ticket.
Completely, 100% agree.
People scoff at recent titles like Lollipop Chainsaw's length, but in the end the game doesn't give a shit. The game is balls to the fun FUN. It's entirely enjoyable, and tacking on a few hours of repetition wouldn't have done it any favors.
It's fun enough in fact that it almost promises at least a second playthrough if you enjoy the game, because you probably won't find yourself bored with it by then. It's not meant to be epic, not meant to be serious, and is just meant to be a completely enjoyable experience. And it delivers, as far as I'm concerned.
I noticed this too, as I'm just now playing through Amnesia for the first time. Looking loosely at guides to gauge progress, I'm not THAT far from finishing it, and I've only been playing about 4 1/2 hours. That doesn't bother me. It's not over yet anyway, but what I've played is the best damn horror I've EVER played in a game, and this comes from someone who's favorite genre is survival horror.
You want another example of this point, much like the television example used above, my personal favorite tv show, Twin Peaks. The first season was AMAZING, the best as far I'm concerned. David Lynch wanted to cut it with a cliffhanger ending allowing fans to use their imagination. But he wasn't allowed, the show had been doing so well that it was DEMANDED of him to reveal the killer of Laura Palmer, something he never wanted to do, let alone do so early.
So the second season suffered greatly as a result. After the big reveal was done the rest just seemed like filler. Still decent, but no where near as mind blowing as what started.
People scoff at recent titles like Lollipop Chainsaw's length, but in the end the game doesn't give a shit. The game is balls to the fun FUN. It's entirely enjoyable, and tacking on a few hours of repetition wouldn't have done it any favors.
It's fun enough in fact that it almost promises at least a second playthrough if you enjoy the game, because you probably won't find yourself bored with it by then. It's not meant to be epic, not meant to be serious, and is just meant to be a completely enjoyable experience. And it delivers, as far as I'm concerned.
I noticed this too, as I'm just now playing through Amnesia for the first time. Looking loosely at guides to gauge progress, I'm not THAT far from finishing it, and I've only been playing about 4 1/2 hours. That doesn't bother me. It's not over yet anyway, but what I've played is the best damn horror I've EVER played in a game, and this comes from someone who's favorite genre is survival horror.
You want another example of this point, much like the television example used above, my personal favorite tv show, Twin Peaks. The first season was AMAZING, the best as far I'm concerned. David Lynch wanted to cut it with a cliffhanger ending allowing fans to use their imagination. But he wasn't allowed, the show had been doing so well that it was DEMANDED of him to reveal the killer of Laura Palmer, something he never wanted to do, let alone do so early.
So the second season suffered greatly as a result. After the big reveal was done the rest just seemed like filler. Still decent, but no where near as mind blowing as what started.
Well, if you are going to release a 2 hour game it needs to be priced as one. It costs me about $10 to see a 2 hour movie, so I won't pay more than $10 for a 2 hour game. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't claim that games should have the right to be short, but then expect anyone to pay $20 to $60 for it.
Just like a developer shouldn't expect us to pay more than $60 for a game that is longer than 8 hours, no developer should expect us to pay more than $10 for a game that is 2 hours. I would say you can add another $10 on to the price for every 2 hours of gameplay, up to $60. I couldn't care less about multiplayer, so saying your game has some kind of online mode does absolutely nothing to convince me it is worth the price....You hear that, EA???
If anything, a multiplayer mode tells me that resources were taken away from the single player, so I am now less likely to buy your game and will rent it or borrow it instead. Well, now I am just getting off topic.
Just like a developer shouldn't expect us to pay more than $60 for a game that is longer than 8 hours, no developer should expect us to pay more than $10 for a game that is 2 hours. I would say you can add another $10 on to the price for every 2 hours of gameplay, up to $60. I couldn't care less about multiplayer, so saying your game has some kind of online mode does absolutely nothing to convince me it is worth the price....You hear that, EA???
If anything, a multiplayer mode tells me that resources were taken away from the single player, so I am now less likely to buy your game and will rent it or borrow it instead. Well, now I am just getting off topic.
Amnesia's length was just about perfect. I've played through it a few times and probably would have settled for once if it was much longer.
Nothing to do with horror games, but this made me think of the Lollipop Chainsaw bitching. People seem to be under the impression that an arbitrarily drawn out "campaign" is the only way to get the most value and play time out of a game.
Nothing to do with horror games, but this made me think of the Lollipop Chainsaw bitching. People seem to be under the impression that an arbitrarily drawn out "campaign" is the only way to get the most value and play time out of a game.
If you wanna make games shorter, fine. But you better make the price shorter in the process too. Tell ya what, if you make the game free, you can have ALL THE FREEDOM YOU WANT.
People keep forgetting that while art should have the freedom to do something like make a shorter experience, PRODUCTS THAT ARE SOLD are a different story. Paying consumers have the right to demand whatever standards they want. And length is one of those standards. You want to be allowed the freedom to make your game shorter? You better sell it at a price that is appropriate. Cause hell if I'm paying $60 for a 2 hour experience.
And protip: If you're bitching about "MY ART FORM SHOULD HAVE THE FREEDOM TO DO THIS", then the solution is to release it as art and not a product. Make it FREE, and you'll have the FREEdom to do whatever you want with your art.
People keep forgetting that while art should have the freedom to do something like make a shorter experience, PRODUCTS THAT ARE SOLD are a different story. Paying consumers have the right to demand whatever standards they want. And length is one of those standards. You want to be allowed the freedom to make your game shorter? You better sell it at a price that is appropriate. Cause hell if I'm paying $60 for a 2 hour experience.
And protip: If you're bitching about "MY ART FORM SHOULD HAVE THE FREEDOM TO DO THIS", then the solution is to release it as art and not a product. Make it FREE, and you'll have the FREEdom to do whatever you want with your art.
You can walk and chew gum at the same time.
You can still make a short game with an indefinite replayability. Catherine comes to mind. The game can be short but its extras game modes and different endings its where the longevity of the game is at.
You can still make a short game with an indefinite replayability. Catherine comes to mind. The game can be short but its extras game modes and different endings its where the longevity of the game is at.
Just don't charge me $60 for a short ass game then. Price accordingly and I have no problems with a slim experience.
Pretty much echoing the same sentiment here. Short games can be great, just don't charge me $59.99 for it of I'll wait until it hits the used bargain bin.
I really like well designed, short games. Heck, if someone could get episodic gaming right and actually release on schedule, things would be gravy.
As I get older and have less time for games :( a short game can be a blessing.
I really like well designed, short games. Heck, if someone could get episodic gaming right and actually release on schedule, things would be gravy.
As I get older and have less time for games :( a short game can be a blessing.
@sir tobii
Yeah, I know what you're saying. I don't really want to compare them directly but I feel more ripped off of I buy a game that I don't like than seeing a bad movie, regardless of price.
Yeah, I know what you're saying. I don't really want to compare them directly but I feel more ripped off of I buy a game that I don't like than seeing a bad movie, regardless of price.
I will not spend $60 dollars for a 3-4 hour experience. cut it by more than half, and we'll be talking. Sure, "value" is not totally measured by length of the experience, but keep in mind that the average consumer will expect a little more, like replayability, multiple endings, hidden unlockable content, or DLC packages.
For an example, look at the old NES games. Speed runs have Contra clocked at around 10 minutes, Super Mario Bros at 5, Castlevania at 12 minutes. You know what all these games have in common? Replayability and fun. Tell me you guys don't still pop these games in from time to time, no matter what the number of times you've beaten it. These games may have been considered full price at their time, but obviously they game us what we were looking for.
For an example, look at the old NES games. Speed runs have Contra clocked at around 10 minutes, Super Mario Bros at 5, Castlevania at 12 minutes. You know what all these games have in common? Replayability and fun. Tell me you guys don't still pop these games in from time to time, no matter what the number of times you've beaten it. These games may have been considered full price at their time, but obviously they game us what we were looking for.
I will pay whatever they charge for Machine for Pigs, no matter what its length is. They proved with Amnesia that not only they could do the best horror game of the last 10 years, but that it could also be shorter than 10 hours.
Games can be as short as they need to be, but if you're making a game that's "short", you should really scale your price down to the length of the game. I might pay $5 for your two hour game, but I won't pay $20 or $60.
I can agree, but I believe that the price needs to represent how much time you're going to get out of the game to some extent... I don't want to pay $60 for a 5 hour game. Period.
I don't know how many games I gave up on just because of the amount of boredom-inducing gameplay "padding."
I'm not spoiled enough to say that I won't spend $60 on a 4-5 hour game, so long as the game is awesome and offers some form of replay value.
And yeah, I'll pay whatever they ask for Machine For Pigs, doesn't matter. They can have my money.
And yeah, I'll pay whatever they ask for Machine For Pigs, doesn't matter. They can have my money.
When I read a game is short the chances of me buying shoot right up. Fuck your 20 hours+ games. I'll never play through them. Around 10? hmm maybe if it's real good. 5 hours? SOLD!
Length should be organic, not forced. Sucks that gamers are so focused on "value" that we get games packed with filler and tacked-on MP. Come on...BioShock wasn't worth $60?
And by the way...NES games cost $40-50 25 years ago and often took 1-2 hrs to beat. Guess what? You just played them again.
And by the way...NES games cost $40-50 25 years ago and often took 1-2 hrs to beat. Guess what? You just played them again.
I agree, some games can be so long as to be a total chore to play. Three of which come to mind are Doom3, Quake4 and Prey, all three really drag on.
@EKGProd
This. Games should be priced accordingly. $60.00 for a 2hour game like Rouge Warrior is overkill.
This. Games should be priced accordingly. $60.00 for a 2hour game like Rouge Warrior is overkill.
If there is replayability, than I'm ok with paying full price for a game. And I don't mean a multiplayer side quest shoe horned in.
I get what he's saying but given the industries propensity for trying to provide the minimum experience possible I cannot support the notion he proposes.
lol you're all hollering about the price like I didn't say in my article that I agree the pricing model should be adjusted for games with shorter content
No one is disagreeing with you Holly. It's just a pertinent part of the discussion for most of us and deserved further consideration.
Amnesia creator needs to shut up.
This is an industry revolving around the premise of "whats the absolute, offensivly least we can possibly provide and how can we mislead the public for profits?"
sounds luke this guy wants to hit the fabled $10 per hour of entrainment price point and is trying to justify his bs
This is an industry revolving around the premise of "whats the absolute, offensivly least we can possibly provide and how can we mislead the public for profits?"
sounds luke this guy wants to hit the fabled $10 per hour of entrainment price point and is trying to justify his bs
Amnesia player says developers have the obligation of exploiting the potential of their gameplay to the fullest. If the full potential of the gameplay results in a short game, that's fine. But if I just reached your last level and I am still running from the same monsters and non-creatively distracting them with the same tricks, your excuse doesn't matter: you are not doing your best.
Developers at least have my blessing to make as many short games as they like. I'll buy em if they're priced appropriately and well-designed. I'm really enjoying being able to trek through a 40 hour monster RPG, to a 12 hour first person narrative, to 6 hour arcade stomp, to a 2 Hour Indie and topping it off with an hour of bullet hell goodness. So much variety these days. :)
blah blah blah but there's no way I'm paying for a 6 hour game blah blah I want boring fetch quests, backtracking and grinding so I can be tricked into thinking I've spent my time on something worthwhile blah blah blah.
I'd pay 60 for a good 6 hour game, god knows i'm tired of padded out Open-world games littered with tedious pixel hunting, escort missions, and hours of backtracking to mission givers.
I can honestly say with all the recent sales on steam and other distributers, also taking into account the low price online retailers have here I did not pay more than 25 euro for any pc game over the last 2 years, and don't plan to do so anytime soon, if its a bit expensive I will just wait till a sale comes along and puts it at 66% off, so really short games for me only mean I wait a little longer for a better deal than the longer games, original price points are often irrelevant for me because I never buy the game at their original price point.
Paying 60 dollars for video games is stupid no matter how long or short it is. Just thought I'd put that out there.
Vanquish which is short in length is the only FPS i've ever restarted as soon as I beat it. That game was a better game for its short length as its more akin to an arcade game than other shooters. If a game has to be short to be good i'm all for it.
That's a fair enough point, but then maybe we need better labels than just 'game' for games of different lengths - like you have with books or TV? We treat novellas different from novels, shorts different from 30 minute programs, etc, the same must apply to games of different lengths.
I like the idea. A short and memorable single player with replay ability elements is better than any 10+ hour generic game IMO.
Some developers forget that some of us get the game mainly for its single player experience. Single player shouldn't be just a tutorial for the MP mode.
Some developers forget that some of us get the game mainly for its single player experience. Single player shouldn't be just a tutorial for the MP mode.
I see where you're coming from there, and that's fine and all, but when I buy a game like Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs, it had better be at least six hours long for $20. I love Amnesia and the way Machine for Pigs create an experience that I haven't been able to find in any other horror game, but when you get right down to it, it needs some meat on it, as well, to create that experience and develop it fully.
In other words, Amnesia was nice and long for what I paid for it (around eight hours or so), so please for the love of all that is good, let Machine for Pigs be around that length, too (or at the very least, six hours).
In other words, Amnesia was nice and long for what I paid for it (around eight hours or so), so please for the love of all that is good, let Machine for Pigs be around that length, too (or at the very least, six hours).
Actually, I forgot to mention it, but half of that opinion probably comes from me just wanting more Amnesia after playing through the first one four/five times. :P
I think my point still holds some truth, though.
I think my point still holds some truth, though.
No problem with shorter games as long as they still pack the quality and value.
I can hardly bring myself to pay $60 for a standard length game unless it is from a developer who has proven they can push the quality aspect. I'm certainly not going to pay full default MSRP for a 1-2hr game.
Still I would have nothing against paying appropriately for a shorter experience.
I can hardly bring myself to pay $60 for a standard length game unless it is from a developer who has proven they can push the quality aspect. I'm certainly not going to pay full default MSRP for a 1-2hr game.
Still I would have nothing against paying appropriately for a shorter experience.
Length is absolutely no problem for me- Most of my favourite games are extremely short, and I feel that they concluded at pretty appropriate times.
Essentially, if a game is required to be shortened to strengthen the experience as a whole, let it be. While I salivate at the thought of a 15 hour long Amnesia, chances are the horror tropes would become dulled and the story would lose cohesiveness. Keep it short and simple.
Essentially, if a game is required to be shortened to strengthen the experience as a whole, let it be. While I salivate at the thought of a 15 hour long Amnesia, chances are the horror tropes would become dulled and the story would lose cohesiveness. Keep it short and simple.
follow
