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I really hate it when someone makes a point that I agree with, but they're such a complete asshole about that I can't bring myself to support their arguments.
I share the love of Fallout. It's literally my favorite franchise.
I also agree on the repeat of "me too" fantasy. Skyrim was good because of the gameplay, but I really could have given a shit about the dragons. Anyone who has ever spent any time with the Dynasty Warriors series would know that it has potential to be a badass big RPG.
INb4 butthurt LARP-ers.
I also agree on the repeat of "me too" fantasy. Skyrim was good because of the gameplay, but I really could have given a shit about the dragons. Anyone who has ever spent any time with the Dynasty Warriors series would know that it has potential to be a badass big RPG.
INb4 butthurt LARP-ers.
This is a similar argument that Ben Croshaw made during his KoA review, and I agree. I'm not so harsh on Elder Scrolls since it was essentially founded on Western fantasies and mythologies, but then Capcom releases Dragon's Dogma, which is more Western fantasies but from an Eastern company. Not saying that Dogma is bad or anything, but I too would like to see a little narrative diversity that explores other cultures. Like when I looked up a random boss from FFVI named Dullahan and learned that it is actually a hostile fairy creature from Irish mythology that essentially acts as a kind of Grim Reaper. Pretty fascinating stuff.
Really it just smacks of companies trying to hit the most common denominator. And sadly that seems to work every time.
Really it just smacks of companies trying to hit the most common denominator. And sadly that seems to work every time.
quick thing before i read the whole thing article
"One of the hardest things for me to understand is whenever someone belittles a "casual" game (whatever that may be to them) by claiming it's either unoriginal or lacks any sort of cutting-edge quality."
hardcore and casual arnt TYPES of games , they are how you PLAY the game.
a hardcore halo fan would beat everything,play 12 hours a day,buy every dlc etc kinda person
where a casual halo fan would play on weekends for a bit, prob. doesnt buy dlc, and prob. hasnt beaten the game yet or doesnt care about achievements etc.
you can get hardcore into flower or tetris even if people "think" they are casual games.
"One of the hardest things for me to understand is whenever someone belittles a "casual" game (whatever that may be to them) by claiming it's either unoriginal or lacks any sort of cutting-edge quality."
hardcore and casual arnt TYPES of games , they are how you PLAY the game.
a hardcore halo fan would beat everything,play 12 hours a day,buy every dlc etc kinda person
where a casual halo fan would play on weekends for a bit, prob. doesnt buy dlc, and prob. hasnt beaten the game yet or doesnt care about achievements etc.
you can get hardcore into flower or tetris even if people "think" they are casual games.
TL;DR
But I kind of agree with the first few paragraphs.
I prefer most of my fantasies culturally diverse. You know the ones that have other people beside white people and elves.
I'd like to read and see more fantasy settings based off of a good mixture of eastern european/african/middle eastern/pacific island culture(s).
The Witcher series somewhat feels like a breath of fresh air because of the eastern european feel.
GRRM's ASOIAF series is nice because you get a good glimpse of things outside of Westeros. But still you have too many of these fantasy worlds clinging onto the western european feel.
I think if the elder's scroll is to truely evolve, they need to go to Akaviir...and not focus on the dragons.
But I kind of agree with the first few paragraphs.
I prefer most of my fantasies culturally diverse. You know the ones that have other people beside white people and elves.
I'd like to read and see more fantasy settings based off of a good mixture of eastern european/african/middle eastern/pacific island culture(s).
The Witcher series somewhat feels like a breath of fresh air because of the eastern european feel.
GRRM's ASOIAF series is nice because you get a good glimpse of things outside of Westeros. But still you have too many of these fantasy worlds clinging onto the western european feel.
I think if the elder's scroll is to truely evolve, they need to go to Akaviir...and not focus on the dragons.
This shouldn't be controversial or surprising to anyone. Skyrim is the most overrated game this generation. The gameplay has barely advanced past Morrowind, except for streamlining control and making it easier. And the setting is just Tolkien, and standard fantasy in every way. Dragonborn is even a class in D&D. Dragon Age: Origins was the same.
At least Morrowind had a truly alien world. You had giant mushroom mage towers, and giant bugs for taxis. The biggest metropolis in the game was a cement version of a mud hut. The buildings were very unconventional, and the terrain was ash, lava, swamps, and plains. Compare that to the supremely generic art style and setting of Oblivion and Skyrim and you should know why I completely lost interest.
And yes, Japanese games are much more original in their settings and art design. For all the endless complaints about JRPGs being formulaic, it's actually one of the most diverse and creative genres in all of gaming.
At least Morrowind had a truly alien world. You had giant mushroom mage towers, and giant bugs for taxis. The biggest metropolis in the game was a cement version of a mud hut. The buildings were very unconventional, and the terrain was ash, lava, swamps, and plains. Compare that to the supremely generic art style and setting of Oblivion and Skyrim and you should know why I completely lost interest.
And yes, Japanese games are much more original in their settings and art design. For all the endless complaints about JRPGs being formulaic, it's actually one of the most diverse and creative genres in all of gaming.
The whole "it's what the market wants..." argument is weak at best these days. It has become more than clear that what the market wants, and what the industry makes, isn't always in tune for a few important reasons. At the end of the day, the classical Tolkien style fantasy theme will continued to be exploited because the big publishers can't afford not to exploit what's immediately popular when they're cutting their release slates to the bone. They can't afford not to exploit, because they don't have anything else.
As much as I loved Skyrim, it was a dull repetition-fest with probably the most boring possible dragons I can think of. I loved the game, but mostly because I'm incapable of not loving a game with so much exploration, but the theme is tired and so fucking stale that the DLC doesn't at all interest me.
I soooooooo much prefer Fallout 3, what an amazing setting. There's so many settings that would be so interesting that it makes me sad devs are hamstrung by the AAA model. My dream game is an open world game like Skyrim set in a Neo Tokyo/Blade Runner style city.
As much as I loved Skyrim, it was a dull repetition-fest with probably the most boring possible dragons I can think of. I loved the game, but mostly because I'm incapable of not loving a game with so much exploration, but the theme is tired and so fucking stale that the DLC doesn't at all interest me.
I soooooooo much prefer Fallout 3, what an amazing setting. There's so many settings that would be so interesting that it makes me sad devs are hamstrung by the AAA model. My dream game is an open world game like Skyrim set in a Neo Tokyo/Blade Runner style city.
"Of course, most people are going to chime in with the expected, "Well, if that's what we the market want, then that's what you're gonna get." Yes, that's entirely true, but that doesn't make it good ... or even acceptable"."
It doesn't make it unacceptable either, lol. I think you need to make this game you're thinking of. Kickstarter away!
It doesn't make it unacceptable either, lol. I think you need to make this game you're thinking of. Kickstarter away!
I totally agree. The last time I bought a Western fantasy title was Fable 1.
The problem is that people aren't willing to boycott a game or genre en masse in protest of one or two features. People hate DRM, but they like the games, so they buy the games with DRM. People are (supposedly) bored of Tolkien fantasy, but they like the other aspects of the game. Sadly, Tolkien fantasy is the safe, easy choice, and it's not enough that everyone's bored of it. It won't go away until the majority of players are so sick of it they aren't even willing to play it at all.
Yes, my dollar is a vote, but my vote barely counts for anything, and neither does my dollar. I often buy games that are commercial failures, and I often skip games that are commercial successes. I can't change things single-handedly, and I'm not willing to skip games I'd otherwise like to play in protest of one aspect of it.
The problem is that people aren't willing to boycott a game or genre en masse in protest of one or two features. People hate DRM, but they like the games, so they buy the games with DRM. People are (supposedly) bored of Tolkien fantasy, but they like the other aspects of the game. Sadly, Tolkien fantasy is the safe, easy choice, and it's not enough that everyone's bored of it. It won't go away until the majority of players are so sick of it they aren't even willing to play it at all.
Yes, my dollar is a vote, but my vote barely counts for anything, and neither does my dollar. I often buy games that are commercial failures, and I often skip games that are commercial successes. I can't change things single-handedly, and I'm not willing to skip games I'd otherwise like to play in protest of one aspect of it.
If you replaced every mention of fantasy tropes with "zombies", you'd have my feelings almost exactly - I stopped buying ""NEW" ZOMBIE GAME - NOW WITH EVEN SHITTIER ENEMY AI" after Left 4 Dead 2.
I have to agree with you there Ryan.
Love elder scrolls but am tired of these wrpg tolkien inspired stuff.
and fuck yeah, darksiders 2
Love elder scrolls but am tired of these wrpg tolkien inspired stuff.
and fuck yeah, darksiders 2
I've never been a fan of high fantasy. I don't see where so many other stories get off having orcs, elves, dwarfs, et al. when Lord of the Rings invented them already. And I'm sure even Tolkien didn't.
Morrowind was a pretty alien setting, as was shivering Isles for Oblivion.
Skyrim is unique in the series for having dragons rather than just talking about legends of them.
What's hysterical to me about this article is your go to Japanese fantasy had feudal Japan in it how many of those do we get every year? Dozens. In fact there is nary a JRPG that doesn't look toward that era for something.
I like all kinds of RPGs. Taken as a whole rather than dividing east and west there is PLENTY of variety. I'm very partial to the SMT series myself.
Let developers make what interests them. I love Skyrim for its mountainous setting and Norse Mythology references. I'm pretty sure TES VI will go to Elswyer the way they Khajit were rare and interesting. Hell, if you delve into the actual lore you'll get stories from Morrowind, Hammerfell and Elswyer. TES is much more that one region.
I'd see your point more if this was some LOTR clone, but it's got a lot of its own personality.
Skyrim is unique in the series for having dragons rather than just talking about legends of them.
What's hysterical to me about this article is your go to Japanese fantasy had feudal Japan in it how many of those do we get every year? Dozens. In fact there is nary a JRPG that doesn't look toward that era for something.
I like all kinds of RPGs. Taken as a whole rather than dividing east and west there is PLENTY of variety. I'm very partial to the SMT series myself.
Let developers make what interests them. I love Skyrim for its mountainous setting and Norse Mythology references. I'm pretty sure TES VI will go to Elswyer the way they Khajit were rare and interesting. Hell, if you delve into the actual lore you'll get stories from Morrowind, Hammerfell and Elswyer. TES is much more that one region.
I'd see your point more if this was some LOTR clone, but it's got a lot of its own personality.
so... you're basically angry about western developers using western mythology as their starting point? who fucking cares? also, you seem to confuse eastern mythology as somehow being more sophisticated than western, but that's just idiotic. i too would love to see more diversity in videogame settings/influences etc but singling out any one thing as lesser just because of it's ubiquity makes no sense.
Considering the number of times characters mention Hammerfell in Skyrim, I sincerely expect that region to be the next one that Bethesda focuses on. I hope...
I like Skyrim, and I don't quite agree with the contention against it simply because the Elder Scrolls universe tends to accompany all sorts of fantasy tropes and takes inspiration from a ton of sources.
I like Skyrim, and I don't quite agree with the contention against it simply because the Elder Scrolls universe tends to accompany all sorts of fantasy tropes and takes inspiration from a ton of sources.
I agree to the point that I think there is room for, and should be, more variation in the fantasy genre. As you say, there is still a hell of a lot of room for creativity beyond the western wizards and dragon mythos. However, obviously there is still plenty I love for Dragons and wizards and knights since those games are still sellin gangbusters. I want more variation, but I'm also happy to keep playing more "traditional" fantasy RPGs because I love them, too. Why can't we have both?
I don't understand how you can complain about the derivative style of European fantasy games when Europe itself is a collection of nations and cultures as broad as you're going to find anywhere else on planet earth. Are developers focusing mainly on the 'western' ideal of European fantasy? Possibly, but don't dismiss thousands of years of culture just because you're tired of dragons.
Also, I'm confused by you stating that just because a market demands something doesn't make it good, and yet, three paragraphs later, you openly admit that one of the main reasons you purchased Skyrim in the first place was because of all the 'mainstream success it achieved.'
Everybody has to have something to bitch about, and personally, I feel that there are far more important and interesting banners to be waving than, 'I don't like the setting of fantasy games.' Is this really an issue?
Also, I'm confused by you stating that just because a market demands something doesn't make it good, and yet, three paragraphs later, you openly admit that one of the main reasons you purchased Skyrim in the first place was because of all the 'mainstream success it achieved.'
Everybody has to have something to bitch about, and personally, I feel that there are far more important and interesting banners to be waving than, 'I don't like the setting of fantasy games.' Is this really an issue?
I'm telling you people Akahviir(sp?) or fucking bust.
Quick everyone flood bethesda's email for an Akahviir dlc for skyrim!!
Quick everyone flood bethesda's email for an Akahviir dlc for skyrim!!
Jade Empire was the tits!
Skyrim was a cool game, but Dark Souls was much more fun to me.
#Darksiders 2
Skyrim was a cool game, but Dark Souls was much more fun to me.
#Darksiders 2
@Ziggy played whatever
Pretty much that.
Then there's also the fact that he called three different games 'very one of a kind experiences' (there is only one of that kind, but there is three of them? [there's actually more than three of course]), and the fact that he called people out for supporting bland games that do boring fantasy and he bought Skyrim himself. >.>
Pretty much that.
Then there's also the fact that he called three different games 'very one of a kind experiences' (there is only one of that kind, but there is three of them? [there's actually more than three of course]), and the fact that he called people out for supporting bland games that do boring fantasy and he bought Skyrim himself. >.>
@taerdin
"and the fact that he called people out for supporting bland games that do boring fantasy and he bought Skyrim himself."
No dude, it's only wrong if you bought it AND liked it. See, he's fine because while he may have bought it, he didn't actually enjoy it and found it overrated and lame. So that makes it ok. We're the ones that are wrong, not him. See the difference?
"and the fact that he called people out for supporting bland games that do boring fantasy and he bought Skyrim himself."
No dude, it's only wrong if you bought it AND liked it. See, he's fine because while he may have bought it, he didn't actually enjoy it and found it overrated and lame. So that makes it ok. We're the ones that are wrong, not him. See the difference?
@Shinta
"And yes, Japanese games are much more original in their settings and art design. For all the endless complaints about JRPGs being formulaic, it's actually one of the most diverse and creative genres in all of gaming."
I'm guessing you think this because you're not Japanese?
I think there's a misunderstanding there as a lot of Japanese story-telling and art is still derived from their own culture and history, in particular things like Kabuki theater. It only seems so different to us Western folk because *gasp* it's literally foreign to us! SHIT NOWAI!
To say that Western entertainment draws heavily on Western aesthetics is sort of a "duh, no shit Sherlock" statement.
That said, I really like fantasy whose aesthetics are based in medieval reality crossed with fiction. Maybe it is because I grew up with Tolkien, but that's just my bag yo. One of the reasons I probably really dig Dragon's Dogma.
Of course, there is still room for creativity. Just look at Game of Thrones, or the fantasy series that inspired it, Memory, Sorrow and Thorn. But you're also comparing actual writers versus game designers that saw a movie and said "let's make that a video game" (or, in the case of Capcom, took their Monster Hunter franchise and said "Okay, how can we get Americans to buy this?").
"And yes, Japanese games are much more original in their settings and art design. For all the endless complaints about JRPGs being formulaic, it's actually one of the most diverse and creative genres in all of gaming."
I'm guessing you think this because you're not Japanese?
I think there's a misunderstanding there as a lot of Japanese story-telling and art is still derived from their own culture and history, in particular things like Kabuki theater. It only seems so different to us Western folk because *gasp* it's literally foreign to us! SHIT NOWAI!
To say that Western entertainment draws heavily on Western aesthetics is sort of a "duh, no shit Sherlock" statement.
That said, I really like fantasy whose aesthetics are based in medieval reality crossed with fiction. Maybe it is because I grew up with Tolkien, but that's just my bag yo. One of the reasons I probably really dig Dragon's Dogma.
Of course, there is still room for creativity. Just look at Game of Thrones, or the fantasy series that inspired it, Memory, Sorrow and Thorn. But you're also comparing actual writers versus game designers that saw a movie and said "let's make that a video game" (or, in the case of Capcom, took their Monster Hunter franchise and said "Okay, how can we get Americans to buy this?").
I agree, but I don't think that the Tolkien-esque fantasy style deserves so much scorn. It has it's place, and it's very good. I like the style and have no problem buying in to it. I was happy with the world Skyrim created, even though I would really like to see some of the stranger parts of Tamriel as well. You can't really be disappointed that Skyrim wasn't something really crazy and out there, because it was never meant to be. It's set in a well established lore, and there's nothing wrong with that.
But it is depressing to see that there's hardly any other styles of fantasy out there. I would really love to see a Jade Empire 2. I loved the first game, it's the only Bioware game I've ever really been interested in. But I wish so so much that more RPGs and fantasy games were set in more original worlds. Traditional fantasy settings have their place, but there is too much of it and there's more than enough room for something different. And if the game is good enough I'll eat that shit up if they give it to me. Except if it's Fallout. I really don't like Fallout. To be honest, I'm getting rather bored of post apocalyptia in general. That's another fantasy setting that needs to be dialed back too.
But it is depressing to see that there's hardly any other styles of fantasy out there. I would really love to see a Jade Empire 2. I loved the first game, it's the only Bioware game I've ever really been interested in. But I wish so so much that more RPGs and fantasy games were set in more original worlds. Traditional fantasy settings have their place, but there is too much of it and there's more than enough room for something different. And if the game is good enough I'll eat that shit up if they give it to me. Except if it's Fallout. I really don't like Fallout. To be honest, I'm getting rather bored of post apocalyptia in general. That's another fantasy setting that needs to be dialed back too.
@Tris
You're being way overdramatic, and you know it.
The problem isn't that these games are bad, the problem is that they're all there is. If you like this Tolkien style stuff to death, your cup runneth over and I'm happy for you. The fact that this is basically all there is on the market though? What about the rest of us who have to wait years at a time for a fantasy RPG that actually appeals to someone other than Tolkien fans?
And yes, that is a problem. The software market is contracting because publishers can't afford to release as many games as they once could. What games do you think get the ax because of this, the Tolkien style RPGs? The more they've focused on these kinds of games, the immediately popular like Tolkien RPGs, the more money they've lost and the less games they've made.
You're being way overdramatic, and you know it.
The problem isn't that these games are bad, the problem is that they're all there is. If you like this Tolkien style stuff to death, your cup runneth over and I'm happy for you. The fact that this is basically all there is on the market though? What about the rest of us who have to wait years at a time for a fantasy RPG that actually appeals to someone other than Tolkien fans?
And yes, that is a problem. The software market is contracting because publishers can't afford to release as many games as they once could. What games do you think get the ax because of this, the Tolkien style RPGs? The more they've focused on these kinds of games, the immediately popular like Tolkien RPGs, the more money they've lost and the less games they've made.
"The problem isn't that these games are bad"
You read the article, person who used to be OneRed? You're not saying the same thing the article is. The article said these games are bad. I'm fine with your take on it, and even almost kinda sorta agree just a little tiny bit.
You read the article, person who used to be OneRed? You're not saying the same thing the article is. The article said these games are bad. I'm fine with your take on it, and even almost kinda sorta agree just a little tiny bit.
I like fantasy in all shapes and sizes, including "Tolkien"-esque western fantasy.
...
I feel like I should make more of a point here, but that's all I got.
...
I feel like I should make more of a point here, but that's all I got.
Agreed on every single count. Gaming will still die because people don't have the self-control to not buy every piece of crap that comes out. I work for my money, I'm not gonna waste it on crap, and I ain't even thinking about buying Skyrim.
It's not a case of me wanting Tolkien styled things to go away, it's just that I want more things that are unique and fresh to go alongside them.
I'm starting to think I need to play Morrowind. The only two ES games I played were Oblivion and Skyrim ... to my disappointment.
So are the Elder Scrolls's settings all based off of some different culture? I noticed that Skyrim is based very, very heavily on Nordic culture. I remember Oblivion having a lot of Roman flavor to it.
I actually like that. I gain a new respect for ES if every land in the series is based off something else.
Still want to see what the cleverly named Elsweyr (elsewhere) looks like.
So are the Elder Scrolls's settings all based off of some different culture? I noticed that Skyrim is based very, very heavily on Nordic culture. I remember Oblivion having a lot of Roman flavor to it.
I actually like that. I gain a new respect for ES if every land in the series is based off something else.
Still want to see what the cleverly named Elsweyr (elsewhere) looks like.
"The Elder Scrolls is nothing more than cheap, bargain-bin fantasy."
*Cough*goplaymorrowind*cough*
TES3:Morrowind still has my favorite world of the series, for being on a very harsh and barren, swampy volcanic borderline wasteland where dust-storms would ravage, and there were forests of giant ass mushrooms, some with cities built on them, and would love to see them go back in the direction of different.
I understand the sentiments, and that's part of the reason I grew to hate TES4:Oblivion so much(when unmodded). The world of Oblivion was the most generic piece of shit ever. It looked nice for the time though. Skyrim kind of suffers the same as well. I love Nordic based and looking stuff, and love some of the things you come across in that one, such as the city of Markarth, which is built into the goddamn mountain itself! THey could have take it a lot further forward though.
Also... Hammerfall was in TES2: Daggerfall as well.
Elder Scrolls series aside... this whole sentiment is, on some level, why I like looking to Sci-fi a lot more. Usually people go wild with that stuff(save generic space marine vs alien setting)... though Mass Effect 3 kinda started to kill it for me.
I think it's not the topics of tools, such as dragons, nords, elves, magic, ect, but that people arent arranging them in as interesting ways anymore. Like, shadowrun has many of the same things. But plop them in a modern style world, with things like machineguns and post-industrial cities, and you get win. Hell, even Space Marine vs Aliens could be interesting with some elves and dragons thrown about as well.
I ponder that part of the problem is that most western writers might like their simple genre categories too much. Another part might just be that much of the western world still lacks exposure to the eastern. I'm not talking about the games itself, but that many of the eastern legends aren't too widely known off hand in the west, and much like what Bioware did, it would take a lot of extra time and resources to bring everyone up to speed on the background materials needed.
Anyhow. This is a very big topic, and I'm sure that you could form a college course around it even. This is just my two cents on it.
Or we could just say that it's a fad, like zombies, and shooters, and consoles, and katey perry are, and that consumers are just stupid for following fads in a way that perpetuates them for too long and be done with it. Actually... that might be another college course right there too <.<;
*Cough*goplaymorrowind*cough*
TES3:Morrowind still has my favorite world of the series, for being on a very harsh and barren, swampy volcanic borderline wasteland where dust-storms would ravage, and there were forests of giant ass mushrooms, some with cities built on them, and would love to see them go back in the direction of different.
I understand the sentiments, and that's part of the reason I grew to hate TES4:Oblivion so much(when unmodded). The world of Oblivion was the most generic piece of shit ever. It looked nice for the time though. Skyrim kind of suffers the same as well. I love Nordic based and looking stuff, and love some of the things you come across in that one, such as the city of Markarth, which is built into the goddamn mountain itself! THey could have take it a lot further forward though.
Also... Hammerfall was in TES2: Daggerfall as well.
Elder Scrolls series aside... this whole sentiment is, on some level, why I like looking to Sci-fi a lot more. Usually people go wild with that stuff(save generic space marine vs alien setting)... though Mass Effect 3 kinda started to kill it for me.
I think it's not the topics of tools, such as dragons, nords, elves, magic, ect, but that people arent arranging them in as interesting ways anymore. Like, shadowrun has many of the same things. But plop them in a modern style world, with things like machineguns and post-industrial cities, and you get win. Hell, even Space Marine vs Aliens could be interesting with some elves and dragons thrown about as well.
I ponder that part of the problem is that most western writers might like their simple genre categories too much. Another part might just be that much of the western world still lacks exposure to the eastern. I'm not talking about the games itself, but that many of the eastern legends aren't too widely known off hand in the west, and much like what Bioware did, it would take a lot of extra time and resources to bring everyone up to speed on the background materials needed.
Anyhow. This is a very big topic, and I'm sure that you could form a college course around it even. This is just my two cents on it.
Or we could just say that it's a fad, like zombies, and shooters, and consoles, and katey perry are, and that consumers are just stupid for following fads in a way that perpetuates them for too long and be done with it. Actually... that might be another college course right there too <.<;
Yeah, I'm trying to unify all my online names under my pseudonym to keep things simple for myself (so I don't forget which name I'm using where, to be more precise).
And yeah, I read the article. I see him saying he doesn't care for this style of game, maybe even some real vitriol here and there, but I don't see him equating that with these games being bad games. Maybe that he finds them insufferably boring, but not bad pieces of entertainment.
I mean, I don't think the discussion is even necessary though. There's one reason why these games are being made as much as they are, and one easy way to fix it. As with most shit we all bicker about, it comes right down to the cash.
And yeah, I read the article. I see him saying he doesn't care for this style of game, maybe even some real vitriol here and there, but I don't see him equating that with these games being bad games. Maybe that he finds them insufferably boring, but not bad pieces of entertainment.
I mean, I don't think the discussion is even necessary though. There's one reason why these games are being made as much as they are, and one easy way to fix it. As with most shit we all bicker about, it comes right down to the cash.
@Tristrix
At no point did I say these games were bad -- that's a subjective handle. I did, however, make the somehow bold claim that they're overdone.
I hate quoting myself, but, "I have this game, Skyrim, that I do want to play, because it really is fun doing the things I get to do in it."
As bored as I am with Skyrim's setting (duh, the point of this article), it's a fun type of game. I stated that several times in my article.
Calm your tits and stop wearing your blind disliking for me on your sleeve, dude. This should be about the topic, not the person writing it.
At no point did I say these games were bad -- that's a subjective handle. I did, however, make the somehow bold claim that they're overdone.
I hate quoting myself, but, "I have this game, Skyrim, that I do want to play, because it really is fun doing the things I get to do in it."
As bored as I am with Skyrim's setting (duh, the point of this article), it's a fun type of game. I stated that several times in my article.
Calm your tits and stop wearing your blind disliking for me on your sleeve, dude. This should be about the topic, not the person writing it.
"consumers are just stupid for following fads in a way that perpetuates them for too long"
Why would we ever wanna say consumers are stupid for enjoying something though? I mean, I'm sick to damn death of JRPGs but people love em. Go figure. I'm not gonna tell them how they're ruining gaming for buying them. That'd be silly and wrong.
Why would we ever wanna say consumers are stupid for enjoying something though? I mean, I'm sick to damn death of JRPGs but people love em. Go figure. I'm not gonna tell them how they're ruining gaming for buying them. That'd be silly and wrong.
@Ziggy
Yeah, totally.
I'm upset that I agree with Ryan, who often comes across as an arrogant douche :-D.I was totally burned out on Skyrim and I quickly realized I'd have to just stick to the main quest to even get through it. I did like Oblivion but Skyrim is hardly a leap forward. FS we don't even get FP horsie riding or mounted combat, and why the fuck isn't anyone else riding horses ? This plus the combat and storytelling is abysmal compared to Dark souls that strangely with limited interaction told a much better touching story through it's NPC's even while retaining many western cliches. Jesus, the onion Knight side quest and decisions that actually matter.
Yeah, totally.
I'm upset that I agree with Ryan, who often comes across as an arrogant douche :-D.I was totally burned out on Skyrim and I quickly realized I'd have to just stick to the main quest to even get through it. I did like Oblivion but Skyrim is hardly a leap forward. FS we don't even get FP horsie riding or mounted combat, and why the fuck isn't anyone else riding horses ? This plus the combat and storytelling is abysmal compared to Dark souls that strangely with limited interaction told a much better touching story through it's NPC's even while retaining many western cliches. Jesus, the onion Knight side quest and decisions that actually matter.
@Ryan Perez: Yeah, every race in ES comes from a different homeland region with it's own weather and culture. Oblivion covers the Imperials. Skyrim covers the Nords. Morrowind was the Dark Elves.
If we ever got a game focused on Redguards, it might be what you were asking for. Or a game for Khajit, High Elves or Argonians.
I don't think we'll see a game as alien as Morrowind though. While they are technically still sticking to the series' overall plan, I think it's not a coincidence that they're developing for a more mainstream audience now. It doesn't get much more dudebro friendly in an RPG than the dragonborn viking guy. They won't suddenly go into something as alien as Morrowind, and I've read quotes from Bethesda blatantly stating that they won't do that again.
As far as playing Morrowind now, it's probably too dated to appreciate fully. It is the best in the series, but it didn't age well.
If we ever got a game focused on Redguards, it might be what you were asking for. Or a game for Khajit, High Elves or Argonians.
I don't think we'll see a game as alien as Morrowind though. While they are technically still sticking to the series' overall plan, I think it's not a coincidence that they're developing for a more mainstream audience now. It doesn't get much more dudebro friendly in an RPG than the dragonborn viking guy. They won't suddenly go into something as alien as Morrowind, and I've read quotes from Bethesda blatantly stating that they won't do that again.
As far as playing Morrowind now, it's probably too dated to appreciate fully. It is the best in the series, but it didn't age well.
@Ryan Perez
You really should play morrowind, it may be hard on the eyes now but that game devoured a solid 6 months of my life. It has a world that is completley alien in apperance. Alot of it seems insectoid and... just plain unique.
Its ugly as all hell tho... woof those character models aint pretty. But damnit i love that game more than any other.
You really should play morrowind, it may be hard on the eyes now but that game devoured a solid 6 months of my life. It has a world that is completley alien in apperance. Alot of it seems insectoid and... just plain unique.
Its ugly as all hell tho... woof those character models aint pretty. But damnit i love that game more than any other.
An interesting article. Yes it would be interesting to see better and more varied worlds and less of a reliance on cribbing from Tolkein who himself cribbed heavily from the Viking sagas. Hopwever, that's not to say original and interesting stories can't be told within a Western fantasy setting
There are a lot of interesting fantasy stories out there that break the mold. Roger Zelazny's Amber series, A Song of Ice and Fire is more politics and humans even though it does have dragons some magic and the undead in it. Also the Night Watch saga is a great example of fantasy done right as it incorporates magical beings/magic into our own world as a sort of cold war between light and dark. All of these books I mentioned use fantasy tropes and creatures but do it in a unique way that makes them feel refreshing. It's definately possible for games to do this too, you just need someone/a dev team to take a leap of faith and make a game that is willing to take the risk of taking a familiar fantasy setting and subverting it enough to make it interesting and fresh like the books I mentioned above.
@ccesarano
I don't mean to be that guy, but Memory, Sorrow and Thorn was by Tad Williams, A Game of Thrones is based on the A Song of Ice and Fire books by George R.R Martin. Both great series!
There are a lot of interesting fantasy stories out there that break the mold. Roger Zelazny's Amber series, A Song of Ice and Fire is more politics and humans even though it does have dragons some magic and the undead in it. Also the Night Watch saga is a great example of fantasy done right as it incorporates magical beings/magic into our own world as a sort of cold war between light and dark. All of these books I mentioned use fantasy tropes and creatures but do it in a unique way that makes them feel refreshing. It's definately possible for games to do this too, you just need someone/a dev team to take a leap of faith and make a game that is willing to take the risk of taking a familiar fantasy setting and subverting it enough to make it interesting and fresh like the books I mentioned above.
@ccesarano
I don't mean to be that guy, but Memory, Sorrow and Thorn was by Tad Williams, A Game of Thrones is based on the A Song of Ice and Fire books by George R.R Martin. Both great series!
Of ALL the generic parts of modern 'fantasy' you assault, it's DRAGONS? Fuck off, man, Dragons fit everywhere.
I was with this article up until he said he bought skyrim and Diablo. I mean I should have known he did be cause he was talking about them so much.
This article is like going to an AA meeting and the person leading gives this wonderful speech that makes everyone want to quit right then and there and then the leader proceeds to chug a bottle of Vodka.
This article is like going to an AA meeting and the person leading gives this wonderful speech that makes everyone want to quit right then and there and then the leader proceeds to chug a bottle of Vodka.
What really sucks about The Elder Scrolls universe is that there are some really cool and interesting places and things that they could go and do but instead stick with the generic shit we've already seen. Sure, they made Morrowind but then followed it up with Oblivion and Skyrim. Considering the latter's success, I guess we're in for another few years of mediocrity from Bethesda.
"The Elder Scrolls is nothing more than cheap, bargain-bin fantasy"
"Honestly, how many goddamned McNugget Happy Meals do you need to eat before you'll try some other restaurant on the block? It's a big freakin' neighborhood, in case you haven't bothered to look yet."
Yeah. Not saying the games are bad. Not at all. And Ryan, you gotta stop getting so defensive. I don't dislike you. I'd have to give a shit about you first to have an opinion. It's not personal at all, I just think the article is bad.
"Honestly, how many goddamned McNugget Happy Meals do you need to eat before you'll try some other restaurant on the block? It's a big freakin' neighborhood, in case you haven't bothered to look yet."
Yeah. Not saying the games are bad. Not at all. And Ryan, you gotta stop getting so defensive. I don't dislike you. I'd have to give a shit about you first to have an opinion. It's not personal at all, I just think the article is bad.
isn't every other FPS or TPS a COD or Halo rip, yet alot of people enjoy those games. i get what your saying, same old me too stuff poping up and in this economy people are scared and want to stick with what works, but we are still tired of it. i think that at the core most every game is the same with a different skin or story to it. what can truly seperate a game from another is its gimmiks and story which we do seem to be lacking. then again not every idea works. indian lore may be interesting but will the people be receptive of it, maybe and maybe not.
i suppose my point is that even though games may follow the same formula that doesnt mean they all suck, but i have to also agree with you on the idea that we need a change.
i suppose my point is that even though games may follow the same formula that doesnt mean they all suck, but i have to also agree with you on the idea that we need a change.
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