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Kind of like how people were complaining about the sec scenes in ASOI&F/Game of Thrones.
They are okay with axes, and swords entering people's heads, but a penis entering into a vagina....oh, no....say it isn't so.
Fucking tossers.
They are okay with axes, and swords entering people's heads, but a penis entering into a vagina....oh, no....say it isn't so.
Fucking tossers.
You know, I have no problems with erotic games existing, but for some reason I'd feel better if they weren't on Steam.
It's not that "Sex is worse than violence" it's more that erotic games seem to highlight the very worst of gamer stereotypes. It's like going to a movie theater to see a really violent movie is socially acceptable if you're of age, but if you go to a movie theater to see a pornographic movie, is a sign of perversion or deviancy even if you're of age (I mean for Goddess's sake, get that stuff on the internet!)
So make all the smut games you want, I'd just prefer if they weren't on platforms that I use.
It's not that "Sex is worse than violence" it's more that erotic games seem to highlight the very worst of gamer stereotypes. It's like going to a movie theater to see a really violent movie is socially acceptable if you're of age, but if you go to a movie theater to see a pornographic movie, is a sign of perversion or deviancy even if you're of age (I mean for Goddess's sake, get that stuff on the internet!)
So make all the smut games you want, I'd just prefer if they weren't on platforms that I use.
Would content like this put steam at risk of fines and such for selling porn to underage kids?
I know you have to check the box to say you are 18 but I don't know if that is a fight that steam should even bother fighting.
Just a thought of something that might have not been taken into account. But I don't know the porn laws either.
I know you have to check the box to say you are 18 but I don't know if that is a fight that steam should even bother fighting.
Just a thought of something that might have not been taken into account. But I don't know the porn laws either.
And then all the complainers went and illegally downloaded some abuse porn.
The art in the game looks nice, any idea if its being sold anywhere at all?
The art in the game looks nice, any idea if its being sold anywhere at all?
I don't see anything morally wrong with that game, sex isn't worse than violence. But since it does fall into the category of Porn it's pretty obvious why Valve wouldn't want it on their service. Right now their service is age 13+ for everything. They want to legally and viably sell their services to minors, which is a lot harder to do when you're also selling porn. Getting into that business is probably a lot of work and not in their interest. It's not rocket science. Not really about pure and virtuous, more about simple legal issues and a service meant for all ages.
@PossibleCabbage: the issue i have with that point of view is that you are trying to make a decision for everyone based on what YOU want. It is horribly selfish and short sighted.
It's pretty typical American culture. Sex bad, violence good.
No matter how many porn games the videogames industry puts out, you aren't going to change it. It's the values and beliefs instilled in today's kid's minds.
No matter how many porn games the videogames industry puts out, you aren't going to change it. It's the values and beliefs instilled in today's kid's minds.
i hate censorship. and i find it extremely hypocritical when people are against sex/nudity/curses in the media but are perfectly alright when it comes to murder and death. down with all censorship
@Syn
I never said what Steam should do, I simply said what I would prefer for Steam to do. It's about "I would feel best if this were the case" not "this should be the case."
Worst case scenario, if there were a lot of erotic games on Steam, I would probably just stop using Steam. I'm not threatening to boycott or anything (calling one's personal purchase decision "a boycott" is silly anyway), I would just feel more comfortable as a member of a gaming community where there are not overtly sexual games.
I never said what Steam should do, I simply said what I would prefer for Steam to do. It's about "I would feel best if this were the case" not "this should be the case."
Worst case scenario, if there were a lot of erotic games on Steam, I would probably just stop using Steam. I'm not threatening to boycott or anything (calling one's personal purchase decision "a boycott" is silly anyway), I would just feel more comfortable as a member of a gaming community where there are not overtly sexual games.
for the last time this is NOT a game with sex.
This is sex with a game.
steam delivers actual games, not porn
and don't start with the witcher 2 and "oh no, sex is worse then violence"
that's an empty argument either way because, ya know?
IT'S DIGITAL
This is sex with a game.
steam delivers actual games, not porn
and don't start with the witcher 2 and "oh no, sex is worse then violence"
that's an empty argument either way because, ya know?
IT'S DIGITAL
This is something I've complained about regarding my fellow Americans for years. Everyone wants to get laid, but they don't want to see others getting laid. And then we have George Carlin nailing it on the head: "I'm an American. Give me some violence and I'm a happy guy!"
Welcome to still-Puritanical America.
Welcome to still-Puritanical America.
This is why I always lol when I see VN fans saying that eroges should be on Steam.
And tbh I think it's good that Valve are keeping the pron out, it's seems to be helping Japanese games slowly earn respect from western gamers, who at one point thought of all Jap games as panty shots for "weeaboos" only
And tbh I think it's good that Valve are keeping the pron out, it's seems to be helping Japanese games slowly earn respect from western gamers, who at one point thought of all Jap games as panty shots for "weeaboos" only
Speak it Goldmouth! That's how I'll call you from now and on Jim. What you speak is gold. I was anxiously waiting for someone to speak it.
@tirkaro Is that pedophilia or not?
Anyway, who fucking cares? You have a game that has sex in it, but it's in a storybook format...just...yes, it's kinda stupid, but it's not worth demonising just to make some moral stand. Like it or not, people have sex, and whether or not this game was made with the intent to show that fact, or whether it was made as spank material, doesn't mean that you should hate it...I just don't understand the mentality of people thinking it's weird or wrong, it isn't streaming porn you can't turn off to your PC screen, it's not riddled with viruses and it shouldn't even be accessible to kids because they need a credit card or an older friend to gift it to them, and that's more alarming than the game if it happened.
Anyway, who fucking cares? You have a game that has sex in it, but it's in a storybook format...just...yes, it's kinda stupid, but it's not worth demonising just to make some moral stand. Like it or not, people have sex, and whether or not this game was made with the intent to show that fact, or whether it was made as spank material, doesn't mean that you should hate it...I just don't understand the mentality of people thinking it's weird or wrong, it isn't streaming porn you can't turn off to your PC screen, it's not riddled with viruses and it shouldn't even be accessible to kids because they need a credit card or an older friend to gift it to them, and that's more alarming than the game if it happened.
"A man putting his penis inside of a woman's vagina is really more shocking and distressing to us than a man putting his knife inside of another man's eyeball.
Videogames, guys."
Thank god for Jim.
Videogames, guys."
Thank god for Jim.
Part of me can’t blame them for not wanting a bunch of cheap sex games on their service (assuming that’s what this is), the other part of me says who cares, isn’t the point of Greenlight so that the cream of the crop rises? Maybe one or two might get voted up as a joke at first but how long is that gonna last?
Then again, we can’t have pornography sullying the internet.
Then again, we can’t have pornography sullying the internet.
Not really a proper video game anyway. It's more of a interactive comic. Steams more about advertising for these smaller dev's. I'm sure they made some money off of all the free publicity; including the attention Jim just gave it.
In my day, if we wanted porn to flick through, we'd go down the local park and search the bushes for ripped up mags. You kids have it bloody easy.
Yeah, I've always found this thing about violence being more accepted than sex something unbelievable.
And hey, let's not forget the work of art called Marvel Brothel (seriously, the game is hilarious, and very smart at it), that should be on Steam.
And hey, let's not forget the work of art called Marvel Brothel (seriously, the game is hilarious, and very smart at it), that should be on Steam.
Some businesses just don't want to deal with pornography, and they have the right to block it whereas The Witcher doesn't really fall into that category.
The pornography industry is alive and doing remarkably well. I think the bigger fear for Valve is that if they open the door to masturbatory games then they could very well be overwhelmed and flooded with submissions and games (all one has to do is look at the vast number of pornography sites on the web to see "overkill").
I think if a game contains sex, even explicit sex.. but the main focus of the game isn't primarily sexual self-gratification, then it might very well be accepted. There certainly are issues regarding power and relationships where sex in a game would add to the plot and make people think.. but I guess the difference is whether the game makes people think ... or just not think.
Maybe once Greenlight gets going they can add a "Sexually Explicit" category or AO section - there's certainly money to be made in porn - be it video, websites... or games. It just needs to be kept separate from actual games, the same as general movies are kept separate from pornographic movies.
It's all about intent. Porn's intent is to provide sexual material. A movie can contain explicit sexual sections, but the main intent is to provide some cohesive plot (not the pool boy or pizza delivery guy one), and something entertaining and thoughtful. A game's intent should be to provide a game.
There's nothing wrong with most pornography - but it does need to be kept separate otherwise there's just too much content and it can very quickly overwhelm.
I think if a game contains sex, even explicit sex.. but the main focus of the game isn't primarily sexual self-gratification, then it might very well be accepted. There certainly are issues regarding power and relationships where sex in a game would add to the plot and make people think.. but I guess the difference is whether the game makes people think ... or just not think.
Maybe once Greenlight gets going they can add a "Sexually Explicit" category or AO section - there's certainly money to be made in porn - be it video, websites... or games. It just needs to be kept separate from actual games, the same as general movies are kept separate from pornographic movies.
It's all about intent. Porn's intent is to provide sexual material. A movie can contain explicit sexual sections, but the main intent is to provide some cohesive plot (not the pool boy or pizza delivery guy one), and something entertaining and thoughtful. A game's intent should be to provide a game.
There's nothing wrong with most pornography - but it does need to be kept separate otherwise there's just too much content and it can very quickly overwhelm.
If Valve wants to not have games like this on their service, that's their right. However, any gamer who finds it offensive is a massive hypocrite.
@PossibleCabbage
Thanks for backing up what Syn just said you were doing. You think you know what Steam should do, so you're implying what you "want" to happen because it's "in Steam's best interest." Frankly, if this game were to be on Steam, so be it. You don't have to go look at it each and every time you load up Steam just so you can feel disgusted. It's not going to have any kind of affect on your gaming, purchase decisions, etc. This is like the "I don't want homosexuals to marry because it's offensive" argument. It's not going to, in any way, affect your lifestyle, your own "marriage", how your dog reacts to you coming home, etc. Stop being such an entitled asshole that thinks his way is right and everyone else who thinks differently is wrong.
Thanks for backing up what Syn just said you were doing. You think you know what Steam should do, so you're implying what you "want" to happen because it's "in Steam's best interest." Frankly, if this game were to be on Steam, so be it. You don't have to go look at it each and every time you load up Steam just so you can feel disgusted. It's not going to have any kind of affect on your gaming, purchase decisions, etc. This is like the "I don't want homosexuals to marry because it's offensive" argument. It's not going to, in any way, affect your lifestyle, your own "marriage", how your dog reacts to you coming home, etc. Stop being such an entitled asshole that thinks his way is right and everyone else who thinks differently is wrong.
For me it's not so much "Should this blatant porn game be on Steam?" as it is "Who the fuck would actually pay for this kind of thing, and why would I want to know that they play such things?".
Want an interactive game involving sex? It's called "Sex".
Want an interactive game involving sex? It's called "Sex".
I really don't care if steam accepts this game or not there are plenty of places on thy interweb to get spank material does steam have to be one of them? Also does steam need to be the new newgrounds as well?
I just don't feel Steam is the right marketplace for erotic materials. Not that I think it's "taboo" "weird" or "distressing", I just think it would be strange to see an "Adult" category in Steam's catalogue.
I agree, Jim. Morally, I think this is definitely a grey area. However, I think the dev's quote may very well show the exact reason why Valve decided to take this down.
"Sure, they might lose a very small amount of their audience, but they would gain others ..."
Take a second to think about the "other" audience Valve would gain by allowing adult games.
We all know sex sells, and adult game devs know it too. I think if Valve were to allow adult games, Greenlight runs the risk of being over-saturated by them, to the point where Greenlight's reputation, and Steam's and Valve's by association, would suffer greatly.
If you want an example, just look at the Nexus network of sites, which allows mods for Oblivion, Skyrim, The Witcher, etc. Those sites allow adult content, and by far many of the most popular mods are, in fact, adult mods with some pretty effed up user screenshots to, um, illustrate what the mod can do. Experienced modders know to just ignore them and go look for the normal stuff, but the average user may just assume the site is aimed at adult content, and be turned off by it completely. Greenlight could very well experience the same problem if they allowed adult games.
"Sure, they might lose a very small amount of their audience, but they would gain others ..."
Take a second to think about the "other" audience Valve would gain by allowing adult games.
We all know sex sells, and adult game devs know it too. I think if Valve were to allow adult games, Greenlight runs the risk of being over-saturated by them, to the point where Greenlight's reputation, and Steam's and Valve's by association, would suffer greatly.
If you want an example, just look at the Nexus network of sites, which allows mods for Oblivion, Skyrim, The Witcher, etc. Those sites allow adult content, and by far many of the most popular mods are, in fact, adult mods with some pretty effed up user screenshots to, um, illustrate what the mod can do. Experienced modders know to just ignore them and go look for the normal stuff, but the average user may just assume the site is aimed at adult content, and be turned off by it completely. Greenlight could very well experience the same problem if they allowed adult games.
Yeah let's do drugs business, steal left and right and kill people in the street by running them over and such but god forbid someone shows the most natural making-life act in our games!
I think this is about those strange morals we Americans have but for another reason. Yes, Steam can easily make a section that is 18+ and have adult games there, but I think they're mostly trying to stir away from potential shitstorms parents would raise if their kids got a hold of their credit cards and got into that section.
I think this is about those strange morals we Americans have but for another reason. Yes, Steam can easily make a section that is 18+ and have adult games there, but I think they're mostly trying to stir away from potential shitstorms parents would raise if their kids got a hold of their credit cards and got into that section.
Not too sure what to think about this game. Yeah I'm all against censorship and things like that, and I do think that America needs to grow up and stop hiding sex. On the other hand I just don't think Steam is the place nor does Steam have a proper place for a game like this. ESRB ratings would step in on this game and give it an "A" rating immediately, and Steam doesn't have any way to handle those games yet. Maybe they could make an adult catalog, but I don't think Valve wants to make that risk in America.
Still, kinda odd that a game about stabbing people and such get's a lower ESRB rating than a game of two consenting adults having sex. *shrug* It's America, and Steam isn't exactly the place to break the foundations of society.
Still, kinda odd that a game about stabbing people and such get's a lower ESRB rating than a game of two consenting adults having sex. *shrug* It's America, and Steam isn't exactly the place to break the foundations of society.
The natural downside to Valve becoming so big. I hear dating sims and visual novels are running into issues. I think PC gamers shouldn't think only Steam is an option. Let these games have a wider audience and more freedom to get out there in the public. I fully support these games.
This double standard is true in all aspects of culture, such as film. It's OK for someone to be ripped limb from limb, and we'll give it a 12/PG13 and call it a day. But sex? AO RATIN SICK FILTH PERVERSION BLAH.
Not seeing the big deal here. I hate it when indie developers play the "innocent victim" card. Not just these guys, but a lot of indie devs have this "pity me" attitude lately and it's getting on my nerves. Valve has never allowed erotic games on Steam and Greenlight wasn't going to change that. Not against erotic games at all (this one looks very tasteful,) it just seems silly that these guys expected Valve to act differently from virtually every other digital distributor. I agree it's not an ideal situation here in the US where violence is A-ok, but consensual sex between two adults, even if it's something as badly animated as Mass effect causes an uproar. However, Valve has never allowed this kind of content on their service and these guys are kidding themselves if they thought that was suddenly going to change because of Greenlight. It isn't about Valve being straight laced puritans, it's just something they don't want associated with their service. Stop crying to media outlets for attention over something you know damn well wasn't going to fly.
If the demand is high enough for erotic games, people will seek this game out on their own because they're smart enough to know they're not going to find it on Steam, GOG, Gamersgate or Greenmangaming (though, I don't know if they pitched their game to the later 3. They should totally do that and see how it goes. Post results.) Steam doesn't need to be a distributor of this content.
If the demand is high enough for erotic games, people will seek this game out on their own because they're smart enough to know they're not going to find it on Steam, GOG, Gamersgate or Greenmangaming (though, I don't know if they pitched their game to the later 3. They should totally do that and see how it goes. Post results.) Steam doesn't need to be a distributor of this content.
Elsa: I understand where you're coming from, and really it was more the gamer reactions than Valve's decision that made me tilt my head. That said, it's not like this game is just a sex simulator. There's clearly a real game element to it, with the erotic scenarios being the payoff. I wouldn't classify it as strictly a porn game and that's why I felt it deserved at least a fair discussion.
It's a game about sex, but not necessarily a game that *is* just sex.
It's a game about sex, but not necessarily a game that *is* just sex.
Oh and there is nothing wrong with Dead or Alive Volleyball BTW. Funny how the article automatically invalidates itself by feeling the need to point something out as automatically negative. DOAX was more like a benign Barbie dressup game than anything plus it actually has a large female following.
If these kinds of games are not for you, fine, walk away and ignore. Stop feeding into a stereotypical, moralistic, self indulgent need to badmouth it. Steam can have a sub section for these, but at this point, ironically, gamers are too immature to deal with games like these. These,games should exist in peace in their own devices.
If these kinds of games are not for you, fine, walk away and ignore. Stop feeding into a stereotypical, moralistic, self indulgent need to badmouth it. Steam can have a sub section for these, but at this point, ironically, gamers are too immature to deal with games like these. These,games should exist in peace in their own devices.
This is similar to when Nintendo blocked The Binding of Isaac from the eShop because it had "religious content", but allows the demo of Resident Evil: Revelations, Metal Gear Solid 3, and other violent games.
The priority for these virtual shop keepers is to look good to the public, not to push the medium forward or even to "keep the kids safe" from disturbing material. It's a bummer.
Unlike with Steam though, the eShop is the ONLY WAY to buy digital distributed games on the 3DS. Banning something from Greenlight just shuts them out of one virtual storefront. Being banned from the eShop is essentially being banned from EVERY store front, at least as far as the 3DS is concerned.
Makes me sad.
The priority for these virtual shop keepers is to look good to the public, not to push the medium forward or even to "keep the kids safe" from disturbing material. It's a bummer.
Unlike with Steam though, the eShop is the ONLY WAY to buy digital distributed games on the 3DS. Banning something from Greenlight just shuts them out of one virtual storefront. Being banned from the eShop is essentially being banned from EVERY store front, at least as far as the 3DS is concerned.
Makes me sad.
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