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And dragon dogma sold less and made profit even though it bombed in the west and sold in japan
Its about budget management
Its about budget management
Its a sad day when Stealth says something resonable. Tho im sure he was wearing sonic PJs while saying it.
@Scrustle
This wasn't due to spending money on game development, this was due to insanely bad decisions from the top. They were spending millions each month due to all the stuff they were doing. Big ass trips for everyone, brand new laptops for the entire staff when they had hundreds of employees, and many other things that reading about made me think of a pre-dotcom bust internet company. A start up shouldn't be run as if it were a billion dollar company.
This wasn't due to spending money on game development, this was due to insanely bad decisions from the top. They were spending millions each month due to all the stuff they were doing. Big ass trips for everyone, brand new laptops for the entire staff when they had hundreds of employees, and many other things that reading about made me think of a pre-dotcom bust internet company. A start up shouldn't be run as if it were a billion dollar company.
Lesson 1: Don't expect to create a blockbuster when your studio has nothing of note up to that point.
Lesson 2: If you're depending on the goodwill of the gaming public, don't associate with EA.
Lesson 2: If you're depending on the goodwill of the gaming public, don't associate with EA.
@Derangel
"This wasn't due to spending money on game development..."
" ...the disparity between expectations and reality compounded by the $104.5 million spent on research and development for Project Copernicus..."
Spending is spending, but it says right in the article that they spent $104 million on R&D. Regardless, it doesn't matter what they're spending their money on, it matters only that they're spending money. The rise in dev costs this generation has more to do with the insane amount of spending on everything but actual development, which is why we see CoD games being made for reportedly $40-50 million, and with an estimated $100+ million marketing budget.
"This wasn't due to spending money on game development..."
" ...the disparity between expectations and reality compounded by the $104.5 million spent on research and development for Project Copernicus..."
Spending is spending, but it says right in the article that they spent $104 million on R&D. Regardless, it doesn't matter what they're spending their money on, it matters only that they're spending money. The rise in dev costs this generation has more to do with the insane amount of spending on everything but actual development, which is why we see CoD games being made for reportedly $40-50 million, and with an estimated $100+ million marketing budget.
@Alan Argentina
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/2012/07/38-studios-end-game/print/ Spending may be spending, but the failure of 38 has nothing to do with rising development costs. Schilling had no clue how to run a business and refused to actually listen to people who tried to tell him how.
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/2012/07/38-studios-end-game/print/ Spending may be spending, but the failure of 38 has nothing to do with rising development costs. Schilling had no clue how to run a business and refused to actually listen to people who tried to tell him how.
@Derangel
I know, I've read at least half a dozen accounts of what happened, including a few from inside the company. There's so many different stories about how it went down.
And regardless of what top brass did, this kind of spending is not unusual. Maybe they tried to jump into the deep end with the big boys way too soon, but why shouldn't they have wanted to? Shit, 2 million copies to break even seems downright reasonable compared to many games.
All I'm saying is that the hanchos probably weren't running things too well, but in the grand scheme of things, all they're particularly guilty of was trying to play with the big boys too soon. Their reckless spending was no more reckless than anybody else's, they just bit the dust for it while others find ways to thrive.
I know, I've read at least half a dozen accounts of what happened, including a few from inside the company. There's so many different stories about how it went down.
And regardless of what top brass did, this kind of spending is not unusual. Maybe they tried to jump into the deep end with the big boys way too soon, but why shouldn't they have wanted to? Shit, 2 million copies to break even seems downright reasonable compared to many games.
All I'm saying is that the hanchos probably weren't running things too well, but in the grand scheme of things, all they're particularly guilty of was trying to play with the big boys too soon. Their reckless spending was no more reckless than anybody else's, they just bit the dust for it while others find ways to thrive.
Their overly optimistic dreams were apparent early on. Remember the stupid limited, collector, and amazball editions of the game they tried to pedal? I think the top one was $250, $250 for an untested IP that turned out to be way to middle of the road to garner the sales they were hoping for.
@Scuffles
Its time we all get hockey gear, motorbikes and someone to sitt on the back of our bikes. I could never figure out if it was a woman or man...
Its time we all get hockey gear, motorbikes and someone to sitt on the back of our bikes. I could never figure out if it was a woman or man...
I'm pretty sure we already knew this, or could have gleaned this, considering they only owed a little over a million before the shuttering happened. It had already been said they paid the bulk of their debt off -which makes the fact that they were forced to shutter with so "little" left, even more bullshit.
" While the role-playing game sold 1.3 million copies, an impressive launch for a new IP, it wasn't enough for the Rhode Island-based developer who had leveraged the future of the company against naive expectations of the title being an absolute blockbuster."
Its not like they got all that money from the 1.3 copies any way, EA got a huge chunk because they published/needed to be paid back on their advance. So its really not like 38 had a ton of money sitting around due to their success and were simply being stupid. If anything they were already in the grave, piling the dirt on, before the game sold so many copies.
Also, really? Your going to go with "who had leveraged the future of the company against naive expectations of the title being an absolute blockbuster."? Did any one ever say that at all, or are you just guessing that was their plan? And is it to make them out to be even worse then they already do?
Seriously, the problem was they leveraged the future of their company on the good will (in the form of a loan) of a state that ultimately fucked them in the hind quarters, all for the sake of a new headquarters and the ideal that "new jobs" would be created. They never had to move from Massachusetts to Rhode Island, but something in Rhode Island's deal must have made the move seem pretty fricking delightful. They were going to be in debt regardless, but their additional debt with the state is what killed them, and someone, on both sides, had to have known that. Ultimately I stand by the fact that they were swindled, specially after the way Rhode Island reacted, like they weren't at fault and the citizens had to saddle their terrible idea when it didn't pan out.
Another thing that was a little too big for them to possibly take on was starting an MMO project so early in their life time. Either do a baseline game, or do an MMO, but both seem to be a mixture for death, specially when you so young, considering MMO's seem to take a much bigger budget and have an even longer time-span to make a return. And thats even if they make a return at all.
"A continued relationship with EA cooled after Star Wars: The Old Republic received a lukewarm reception, souring the publisher on the idea of further investment in massively multiplayer titles"
Right, but where are we after Secret World? EA published that too and its seemed to get a good reception so far (from what I can tell). What I'm getting at is 38 already had the ball rolling, all the talk of ToR really doesn't seem to have much to do with it unless EA was going to bail out any way because of 38's troubles (IE: Knowing their investment wasn't going to go any where). ToR's issues are completely on BioWare and EA, even if I'm certain EA would like to carbon copy the idea on everyone else out there, to lessen their role in it.
As for " Attempts were made to partner with Take-Two on a Reckoning sequel, but ultimately talks fell through. ", your forgetting this comes at the back end of some EA double talk.. They denied it then say "oh yeah, we would have loved to", without much clarification as which was actually the real deal (aside from the actual no-deal, that we saw happen) and why.
As for quoting Saul Kaplan, this is the same state, maybe even one of the same guys, who thought giving a video game developer a loan in order to entice them to come to their state and "create jobs" (which I don't believe would have happened, any way) was a grand idea. They've pretty much shown they have little to no clue how the industry works in a realistic manner. Either that, or they had their heads up just as up their ass as 38 did, at the sight of money and "prospects". They're terrible investors who now own an IP that will, frankly, probably be sold off to make a quick buck. They're basically day traders.
" While the role-playing game sold 1.3 million copies, an impressive launch for a new IP, it wasn't enough for the Rhode Island-based developer who had leveraged the future of the company against naive expectations of the title being an absolute blockbuster."
Its not like they got all that money from the 1.3 copies any way, EA got a huge chunk because they published/needed to be paid back on their advance. So its really not like 38 had a ton of money sitting around due to their success and were simply being stupid. If anything they were already in the grave, piling the dirt on, before the game sold so many copies.
Also, really? Your going to go with "who had leveraged the future of the company against naive expectations of the title being an absolute blockbuster."? Did any one ever say that at all, or are you just guessing that was their plan? And is it to make them out to be even worse then they already do?
Seriously, the problem was they leveraged the future of their company on the good will (in the form of a loan) of a state that ultimately fucked them in the hind quarters, all for the sake of a new headquarters and the ideal that "new jobs" would be created. They never had to move from Massachusetts to Rhode Island, but something in Rhode Island's deal must have made the move seem pretty fricking delightful. They were going to be in debt regardless, but their additional debt with the state is what killed them, and someone, on both sides, had to have known that. Ultimately I stand by the fact that they were swindled, specially after the way Rhode Island reacted, like they weren't at fault and the citizens had to saddle their terrible idea when it didn't pan out.
Another thing that was a little too big for them to possibly take on was starting an MMO project so early in their life time. Either do a baseline game, or do an MMO, but both seem to be a mixture for death, specially when you so young, considering MMO's seem to take a much bigger budget and have an even longer time-span to make a return. And thats even if they make a return at all.
"A continued relationship with EA cooled after Star Wars: The Old Republic received a lukewarm reception, souring the publisher on the idea of further investment in massively multiplayer titles"
Right, but where are we after Secret World? EA published that too and its seemed to get a good reception so far (from what I can tell). What I'm getting at is 38 already had the ball rolling, all the talk of ToR really doesn't seem to have much to do with it unless EA was going to bail out any way because of 38's troubles (IE: Knowing their investment wasn't going to go any where). ToR's issues are completely on BioWare and EA, even if I'm certain EA would like to carbon copy the idea on everyone else out there, to lessen their role in it.
As for " Attempts were made to partner with Take-Two on a Reckoning sequel, but ultimately talks fell through. ", your forgetting this comes at the back end of some EA double talk.. They denied it then say "oh yeah, we would have loved to", without much clarification as which was actually the real deal (aside from the actual no-deal, that we saw happen) and why.
As for quoting Saul Kaplan, this is the same state, maybe even one of the same guys, who thought giving a video game developer a loan in order to entice them to come to their state and "create jobs" (which I don't believe would have happened, any way) was a grand idea. They've pretty much shown they have little to no clue how the industry works in a realistic manner. Either that, or they had their heads up just as up their ass as 38 did, at the sight of money and "prospects". They're terrible investors who now own an IP that will, frankly, probably be sold off to make a quick buck. They're basically day traders.
In conclusion:
Lincoln Chafee, go fuck yourself. If it wasn't for you and your fucking political agenda, 38 MIGHT have had a chance to save itself. Take Two was about to close a deal on a sequel to Amalur before this shit head blew the doors off the studio and threw them under the bus. Now the Rhode Island tax payers are fronting the bill and over 400 people are out of a job.
Their budgeting sucked, their staff was a mess, and they had no solid plans for the future, but at least they fucking tried. Governor Chafee went out of his fucking way to crucify this studio all in the name of politics.
Fuck you and fuck everything you stand for. Good day.
Lincoln Chafee, go fuck yourself. If it wasn't for you and your fucking political agenda, 38 MIGHT have had a chance to save itself. Take Two was about to close a deal on a sequel to Amalur before this shit head blew the doors off the studio and threw them under the bus. Now the Rhode Island tax payers are fronting the bill and over 400 people are out of a job.
Their budgeting sucked, their staff was a mess, and they had no solid plans for the future, but at least they fucking tried. Governor Chafee went out of his fucking way to crucify this studio all in the name of politics.
Fuck you and fuck everything you stand for. Good day.
I love(and hate) how staunch fiscal conservative Curt Shilling went crying to the government for money to bail his shitty studio out. Oh, you want the government out of the private sector only when it's convenient for you, Curt? Your venture bit it. Deal with it. You have the cash. That's capitalism, baby.
Also, how often are taxpayer-backed loans doled out to fucking high risk businesses? That is so wank.
Also, how often are taxpayer-backed loans doled out to fucking high risk businesses? That is so wank.
Curt Schilling's political agenda is kind of fail, but mehhh. Kingdoms of Amalur was a good game with interesting lore that I would've loved to get more of. Epic BHG may make a fun game but it's doubtful it'll have the same lore to draw me in like this did.
It's sad because Schilling just believed he could jump into the video game industry with the one same thing that made him an elite pitcher, that deep seated drive and personal will to succeed. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way in business. And now he's squandered his life savings and got a bunch of people in unemployment.
we need smarter marketing and better budget management.
Spending a shit ton of money to plaster advertisements everywhere is way less effective than it should be for the money people put into it. That just leads to better budget management. Spend most of the money on getting the game out of the door then actually THINK about marketing the game, all it is now is shelling out advertisements and paying out the ass to get them everywhere you can.
Spending a shit ton of money to plaster advertisements everywhere is way less effective than it should be for the money people put into it. That just leads to better budget management. Spend most of the money on getting the game out of the door then actually THINK about marketing the game, all it is now is shelling out advertisements and paying out the ass to get them everywhere you can.
I hear the film industry is extremely thrifty and wasteful. A lot of that is probably washing onto the game industry now, especially because the line between them has become increasingly blurred.
Either that or perhaps they were overconfident that the game had to be a winner because it combined many elements from popular games. I get the impression that many people think that way. That goes back to what I said about how "you can't just take elements and throw them together, you need to understand why they're there and how they work with each other."
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