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my understanding of the situation (ie 38 studios spunked away 90 million dollars of taxpayers money in 2 years) gives very, very little room for sympathy. what a mess.
So they made a poor investment that failed, what do?
I know lets spend MORE MONEY! investigating why our initially questionable investment didn't pan out ~.~
I think its time for RI to just cut their losses and walk away and maybe time for the voters to remember this whole mess come election day.
I know lets spend MORE MONEY! investigating why our initially questionable investment didn't pan out ~.~
I think its time for RI to just cut their losses and walk away and maybe time for the voters to remember this whole mess come election day.
Seriously how does a gaming studio that up until that point hasn't released a single game, get a 75 Million dollar loan?
They still technically haven't made a game .... they bought the studio that made the game that became Amalure...........
Argh I don't even live in RI and that still makes me angry, and sleepy, then angry some more, then sorta hungry and finally angry again.
They still technically haven't made a game .... they bought the studio that made the game that became Amalure...........
Argh I don't even live in RI and that still makes me angry, and sleepy, then angry some more, then sorta hungry and finally angry again.
The governor acts as if he's a private investor investing his own money. The taxpayers didn't vote to have their money given to a tiny, unproven game developer in the off chance they'd make the next WoW.
@enteringoblivion
Well, what makes the situation more complicated was that it was the PREVIOUS governor that helped make that loan happen, while the CURRENT governor was against it at the time. Ever since the current governor took office, he's made it very difficult on the team over at 38 and pretty much did whatever he could do to make them fail (scaring away investors, not working with them to make things work, etc.).
While 38 is definitely at fault here, the governor and his vendetta really fucked over everyone involved. So I'm not surprised that he's playing this the way he is, as he wants to prove he was right the whole time and milk the situation as much as he can.
And yeah, the tax payers of RI got screwed over :/ Now all the developers that moved to RI to work at 38 are just going to leave the state and go elsewhere. They are out tens of millions of dollars and don't get to keep the talent that the studio attracted in the area.
Well, what makes the situation more complicated was that it was the PREVIOUS governor that helped make that loan happen, while the CURRENT governor was against it at the time. Ever since the current governor took office, he's made it very difficult on the team over at 38 and pretty much did whatever he could do to make them fail (scaring away investors, not working with them to make things work, etc.).
While 38 is definitely at fault here, the governor and his vendetta really fucked over everyone involved. So I'm not surprised that he's playing this the way he is, as he wants to prove he was right the whole time and milk the situation as much as he can.
And yeah, the tax payers of RI got screwed over :/ Now all the developers that moved to RI to work at 38 are just going to leave the state and go elsewhere. They are out tens of millions of dollars and don't get to keep the talent that the studio attracted in the area.
@Ralazar
Can you link me to an article about the governor's involvement in trying to aid in their failure? I'm not trying to be a dick I just really haven't seen anything. Also I feel as though a lot of people are using "its the government's fault" as a distraction from what Schilling and the heads of that company did to ruin it. That's not to say the government doesn't have a responsibility to trying to clean up the mess they brought to their state. I just find it extremely annoying that whenever this issue comes up there are quite a few gamers that *only* want to discuss how the government screwed up.
How about the allegations of how Schilling may have illegally handled the money, or the mortgages and medical bills the former employees have to deal with? Or maybe the fact that paying people from out of state to come to Rhode Island to work doesn't actually help the unemployed who were already living in Rhode Island.
Also I'm not aiming this at you. I just saw that you brought up the issue with the governors and wanted to use that to make a point. I'll get off my soapbox now.
Can you link me to an article about the governor's involvement in trying to aid in their failure? I'm not trying to be a dick I just really haven't seen anything. Also I feel as though a lot of people are using "its the government's fault" as a distraction from what Schilling and the heads of that company did to ruin it. That's not to say the government doesn't have a responsibility to trying to clean up the mess they brought to their state. I just find it extremely annoying that whenever this issue comes up there are quite a few gamers that *only* want to discuss how the government screwed up.
How about the allegations of how Schilling may have illegally handled the money, or the mortgages and medical bills the former employees have to deal with? Or maybe the fact that paying people from out of state to come to Rhode Island to work doesn't actually help the unemployed who were already living in Rhode Island.
Also I'm not aiming this at you. I just saw that you brought up the issue with the governors and wanted to use that to make a point. I'll get off my soapbox now.
I think the investigation is probably due to a lot of fishy things that seems to have been happening. The mortgage frauds alone are enough to put some people behind bars.
Wait, 90 million dollars spent over 2 years? Where the fuck does that much money go in two years?
I'm starting to think there's more to this, and wouldn't be surprised if someone gets locked up over the whole ordeal.
I'm starting to think there's more to this, and wouldn't be surprised if someone gets locked up over the whole ordeal.
@TheGreatEscape
I would assume they are referring to the accusation that the governor went public while the studio was in talks with potential investors that, if successful, would have given them the capital they needed to fulfill their payment obligations and get the game published. Whether it is true or not is anyone's guess at this point. We are all on the outside looking in. But considering I haven't heard of any reason the governor needed to go public the way he did, it does make you question his motives on why,
Not saying that the leadership of 38 studios isn't at fault here. Something clearly went wrong somewhere along the line. But giving the governor a free pass when his motives definitely seem questionable. Why would you go public and scare off potential investors which could let the studio finish what it was intending and not cost your taxpayers in the end? Deny them more money, wait until they figure out whether they can pay or not (ie file for bankruptcy) and then have a formal statement ready for when it happens.
He made a bad problem even worse by his actions from what I have seen.
I would assume they are referring to the accusation that the governor went public while the studio was in talks with potential investors that, if successful, would have given them the capital they needed to fulfill their payment obligations and get the game published. Whether it is true or not is anyone's guess at this point. We are all on the outside looking in. But considering I haven't heard of any reason the governor needed to go public the way he did, it does make you question his motives on why,
Not saying that the leadership of 38 studios isn't at fault here. Something clearly went wrong somewhere along the line. But giving the governor a free pass when his motives definitely seem questionable. Why would you go public and scare off potential investors which could let the studio finish what it was intending and not cost your taxpayers in the end? Deny them more money, wait until they figure out whether they can pay or not (ie file for bankruptcy) and then have a formal statement ready for when it happens.
He made a bad problem even worse by his actions from what I have seen.
This is a very shady situation. 38 moved well into the development of KoA because of the incentives RI was offering. But those incentives would act as a noose if KoA was anything but a blockbuster game, as the repayment of the loan was steep and arrived shortly after the release. The value of the company was heavily invested in KoA being a successful IP.
The game underperformed. The studio was in dire straits and owed more money than the company was taking in. The problem here is that taxpayers are on the hook because of the state loan. Even as a hardcore liberal, the state should not have loaned cash to bring an untested developer over just because it would cause a few job relocations. Had the company stayed in MA, there's a very good chance 38 would be working on their next game.
The game underperformed. The studio was in dire straits and owed more money than the company was taking in. The problem here is that taxpayers are on the hook because of the state loan. Even as a hardcore liberal, the state should not have loaned cash to bring an untested developer over just because it would cause a few job relocations. Had the company stayed in MA, there's a very good chance 38 would be working on their next game.
As horrible as this situation is, one thing that has shown as a positive is that now we, the gaming public, are finally being allowed to see the kinds of figures modern games are costing to develop. We never really get to know how much games cost, other than a fuck-ton, but that's not quite as clear as taxpayers being out $90 mil for ONE game.
This is exactly why the "next generation" needs to stay far the fuck away. They can't even afford to make games NOW with this supposedly "out-dating" tech. God bless the rise of the Indie market so that someone out there can make modest but fun games that we can enjoy and they can profit from. The biggest question is: how 'bout it, Epic? Want to own an RPG franchise? You got the staff, now here's your chance.
This is exactly why the "next generation" needs to stay far the fuck away. They can't even afford to make games NOW with this supposedly "out-dating" tech. God bless the rise of the Indie market so that someone out there can make modest but fun games that we can enjoy and they can profit from. The biggest question is: how 'bout it, Epic? Want to own an RPG franchise? You got the staff, now here's your chance.
Yeah gotta agree with NickCull there. This is just a reminder of how much these games now cost to develop, and everyone wants a new generation of games/tech. We are going to end up bankrupting ourselves with this shit. Sooner or later theres not going to be anything left. Games are going to cost even more to make, they are going to obviously increase the prices of games which is going to make it even more of a exclusive type hobby. Who are they going to sell games to when the cost to purchase a single copy of one costs 70 or 80 bucks. The industry needs to seriously look into these issues, not to mention us, the consumers. Are we ready to shell out 70 or 80 bucks for a single game? That is what asking for a new generation is asking for.
Hm. There was an article published in a gaming mag a while back that said it used to cost somewhere around 750k to 1 million to publish a Triple A PS1 game. That same article said the cost increased by 3-5 times for a PS2 game. The difference in capabilities between the PS2 and PS3 is HUGE, so I could see the costs doing the same thing for current gen. I don't think too many people would bat an eye at it costing (at LEAST) 10 million to make something like CoD, GTA, Assassin's Creed, etc. So yeah, I do think we need to chill out as far as pushing new tech and work with what we have.
As far as this 90 million? After they got done paying their "visionaries", they had to pay staff, design this game, do a TON of promotion, and THEN pay for the bottomless money pit that is an MMO. None of which is cheap. I'm doubting we'll see much come from this investigation other than learning the steep cost of developing a triple A title if you're an indie company.
As far as this 90 million? After they got done paying their "visionaries", they had to pay staff, design this game, do a TON of promotion, and THEN pay for the bottomless money pit that is an MMO. None of which is cheap. I'm doubting we'll see much come from this investigation other than learning the steep cost of developing a triple A title if you're an indie company.
@NickCull The only problem with that assumption is the following:
1) The 90 Million was not for KOA, it was for the MMO that was never released.
2) Big Huge had most of KOA done before they were bought out. I doubt they had a $90 Million Budget.
3) To say that "Games cost 90 Million to make" because some idiots burned through 90 Million is absurd. They wasted money hand over foot. They bought out another game studio, published a successful game, and STILL lost money.
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Tim-Schafer-Compares-Past-Video-Game-Budgets-Current-Budgets-39474.html
The most expensive items in the making of a game is the marketing. After that you can waste a ton of money hiring on big names (Todd McFarlane, Salvatore) and voice acting.
"Nowadays, a huge portion of a game's budget resides in marketing, in fact, for some games, 200% of the budget will go into marketing while the game itself will cost anywhere between $10 and $20 million to actually design and produce." ~Tim "DaMan" Schafer
AAA games cost 10-20 Million to produce. Even more embarrassing that 38 managed to blow their money so quickly.
1) The 90 Million was not for KOA, it was for the MMO that was never released.
2) Big Huge had most of KOA done before they were bought out. I doubt they had a $90 Million Budget.
3) To say that "Games cost 90 Million to make" because some idiots burned through 90 Million is absurd. They wasted money hand over foot. They bought out another game studio, published a successful game, and STILL lost money.
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Tim-Schafer-Compares-Past-Video-Game-Budgets-Current-Budgets-39474.html
The most expensive items in the making of a game is the marketing. After that you can waste a ton of money hiring on big names (Todd McFarlane, Salvatore) and voice acting.
"Nowadays, a huge portion of a game's budget resides in marketing, in fact, for some games, 200% of the budget will go into marketing while the game itself will cost anywhere between $10 and $20 million to actually design and produce." ~Tim "DaMan" Schafer
AAA games cost 10-20 Million to produce. Even more embarrassing that 38 managed to blow their money so quickly.
@Jason
Thanks for posting that article, I hadn't seen it before. I really wish studios would consistently post their budgets more often so we could better examine them.
With this information, I would say that the problem with moving to the next generation wouldn't necessarily be grounded in the cost of the tech itself, but it would be necessary for there to be adjustments in attitudes of those who are in control of the tech, because they will likely inflate their budgets and claim it "Newer is better and more expensive." Either way, unnecessary advancements will result in publishers attempting to fleece consumers, and directly relate it to the better, "more expensive" equipment.
I appreciate that's like saying "We have to find a way to make companies quit cheating customers," but current gaming trends tell me the market needs more financial stability in general for next generation budgets and expectations to not be completely unreasonable.
Thanks for posting that article, I hadn't seen it before. I really wish studios would consistently post their budgets more often so we could better examine them.
With this information, I would say that the problem with moving to the next generation wouldn't necessarily be grounded in the cost of the tech itself, but it would be necessary for there to be adjustments in attitudes of those who are in control of the tech, because they will likely inflate their budgets and claim it "Newer is better and more expensive." Either way, unnecessary advancements will result in publishers attempting to fleece consumers, and directly relate it to the better, "more expensive" equipment.
I appreciate that's like saying "We have to find a way to make companies quit cheating customers," but current gaming trends tell me the market needs more financial stability in general for next generation budgets and expectations to not be completely unreasonable.
So, Kingdoms of Amalur should go on sale soon, yes?
For everyone flipping out over the poor taxpayers - lending money is a risk. Sometimes the borrower goes bankrupt. If anything, be mad at the RI state government for making stupid investments with taxpayer money.
For everyone flipping out over the poor taxpayers - lending money is a risk. Sometimes the borrower goes bankrupt. If anything, be mad at the RI state government for making stupid investments with taxpayer money.
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