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Maybe Borderlands and Bioshock do look more realistic to this guy, because he's clearly not living in this dimension.
My biggest problem with this gen was never that it didn't look realistic enough. I hate how realism trumps everything else now. GTAIV tried to be more realistic and it was the most boring entry in the series for me. SR2 was highly unrealistic and is my favorite game in the sandbox genre.
There exists an ancient technology which can convey emotion with no graphics at all! It is called wri - oh you already got that one. Carry on then.
I just want graphics that can reasonably reflect a games initial art concepts and we've been there since last generation. If you can draw it a game can now come incredibly close or accurately reflect any kind of visual style.
The Pixar example is spot-on, though it was Brave that gave me the sniffles.
The Pixar example is spot-on, though it was Brave that gave me the sniffles.
Phoenix Wright is just a bunch of sprites and ridiculous characters and cases and it still managed to touch my heart strings in some moments.
Metal Gear Solid, for all it's realistic graphics, has some of the most crazy, stupid, ridiculous and convoluted characters and plot, breaks the fourth wall numerous times, and it STILL manages to evoke emotion from people.
Metal Gear Solid, for all it's realistic graphics, has some of the most crazy, stupid, ridiculous and convoluted characters and plot, breaks the fourth wall numerous times, and it STILL manages to evoke emotion from people.
I am quite simply dumbfounded by the ass-backwards logic that the goal of fiction should be reality.
Sure, photo-realism isn't needed for a good story, but he also has a point. In both Heavy Rain and LA Noire, I felt broken out of the experience by poor animation, in an otherwise realistic looking game. This is already being corrected in Beyond: Two souls, and just from that it looks more engaging, to me anyway.
I know, right? There wasn't shit for innovation back in the PSX days. Now that so many of the technical limitations gaming used to have are fading away, everyone can finally make the third person action/shooter they've always wanted.
But seriously, these guys really do think that better graphics and such is innovation. They've rocked that PR gobbledygook for so long that they've started to believe it themselves.
But seriously, these guys really do think that better graphics and such is innovation. They've rocked that PR gobbledygook for so long that they've started to believe it themselves.
need moar Keanu Reeves!
Yeah, I have to agree that it's good writing that evokes emotion, and not photorealistic graphics. This is one of the reasonss for Pixar's success!
Yeah, I have to agree that it's good writing that evokes emotion, and not photorealistic graphics. This is one of the reasonss for Pixar's success!
This thinking is everything thats wrong with modern day game design.
"Real" looking=Better.
Because fighters like Way Of The Warrior are aces.
"Real" looking=Better.
Because fighters like Way Of The Warrior are aces.
Up brought tears to my eyes, and it did it during a scene with no dialog. they didn't do it with hyper realistic 3d modeling capable of showing facial musculature behind emotion, they did that with technique.
I'm sure the gaming world has the talent to be able to pull this off, i just don't think the cost of execution is worth it to those with a vice grip on the money.
I'm sure the gaming world has the talent to be able to pull this off, i just don't think the cost of execution is worth it to those with a vice grip on the money.
I love that of all the emotional movies out there, he goes with Brokeback Mountain.
Brokeback Mountain: The Game coming 2014
Brokeback Mountain: The Game coming 2014
I find cel-shading and other stylized art forms in games much more memorable than the attempts at "photorealism." I don't think his point about becoming emotionally engaged because it's realistic holds water. As Jim notes, classic animated movies have some of the most emotionally engaging moments I can recall. Additionally, two games that immediately spring to mind for stories that provoked emotional responses from me are The World Ends With You and Radiant Historia, which are both spritey DS games!
bmg123: I won't say the advent of better graphics will *harm* storytelling, but there's an inherent problem with the attitude that storytelling can't get better without those graphics. It leads to complacency, for one thing. 2K has ostensibly just said it doesn't feel like trying to push the envelope until technology gets better. It sends the message it'll just tread water until some other company innovates -- which is a pretty bad message.
It seems to permeate across the industry, this idea that tech isn't good enough so we don't have to try. Meanwhile, we have hard working indie talent that IS trying, with far less resources, and showing that this attitude is total bunkem.
It seems to permeate across the industry, this idea that tech isn't good enough so we don't have to try. Meanwhile, we have hard working indie talent that IS trying, with far less resources, and showing that this attitude is total bunkem.
Breaking News: 2K Games has just opened negotiations for a trillion dollar publishing bid between EA, Activision, the People's Republic of China, Donald Trump, the ghost of Steve Jobs, the dark prince Lucifer and Lex Luthor.
Entirely in agreement, Jim. Photorealism doesn't sell emotion. Quality storytelling does. Game devs need to start hiring better writers if they want to compete with other media, plain and simple.
This is yet again the case of some voice in th industry who has never come even close to a true videogame in his life.
There's a pretty big difference between "graphics" and "art direction".
For exemple, Metroid: Other M has some of the best graphics on the wii, but its character, ennemy, and environment design is atreocious.
For exemple, Metroid: Other M has some of the best graphics on the wii, but its character, ennemy, and environment design is atreocious.
That Orlando Bloom piece is by far my favorite, Jim.
To the Moon, Gemini Rue, Resonance, Lone Survivor and many other brilliant indies easily prove how terribly horribly wrong that argument is.
To the Moon, Gemini Rue, Resonance, Lone Survivor and many other brilliant indies easily prove how terribly horribly wrong that argument is.
But Jim, realistic looking games gave us chest-high walls! How is THAT not innovation as its finest?
Actually, how many "realistic" looking games this gen even implement reality? Regenerating health after bullet wounds is even less realistic than older, less realistic-looking shooters where you picked up med kits. I'd say that games with permadeath like The Binding of Isaac and Dungeons of Dredmor have been more realistic than CoD or Gears. And yes, I get that not every game should have that feature, but it seems disingenuous to talk about how "real" games need to look when the highest grossing games are about blasting alien or terrorist hordes with a bullet-soaking death machine.
Actually, how many "realistic" looking games this gen even implement reality? Regenerating health after bullet wounds is even less realistic than older, less realistic-looking shooters where you picked up med kits. I'd say that games with permadeath like The Binding of Isaac and Dungeons of Dredmor have been more realistic than CoD or Gears. And yes, I get that not every game should have that feature, but it seems disingenuous to talk about how "real" games need to look when the highest grossing games are about blasting alien or terrorist hordes with a bullet-soaking death machine.
Good to know that I wasn't feeling real emotions when I watched countless animated movies throughout my life. Apparently only live-action film actors can emote, and only when they're on-screen.
On the flipside, this is excellent reasoning for why 99% of CGI characters inserted into live-action films fall flat.
On the flipside, this is excellent reasoning for why 99% of CGI characters inserted into live-action films fall flat.
The first 20 minutes of "Up" has be sobbing like an idiot. "Up" is not exactly photorealistic. It's the story, stupid. :P
(Of course, "good voice acting" has zilch to do with photorealism; my point is that developers often overlook the little important details in favor of whatever next-big-thing strikes their fancy.)
"Right now, I cannot think of a single graphically "realistic" game that has innovated this generation. On the contrary, Minecraft is one of the most unique and celebrated experiences of the past few years, and it looks like the incestuous product of a LEGO orgy."
Marry me?
Marry me?
Hmmmm I love 2kGames they are probably one of the few developers who I can still look to and expect consistently great things from.
...... but the whole take that "photo realism is something that is required for innovation" ..... I am honestly disappointed...
...... but the whole take that "photo realism is something that is required for innovation" ..... I am honestly disappointed...
Majora's Mask is pretty cartoony and unrealistic and to me that was one of the darkest, most well written games ever.
Yeah, more powerful stories push the medium forward on a personal level I think while technology makes it more accessible. Photo-realistic graphics are great for environments but character models have dead eyes and a fighting game would look sad, like one of those Bum Fights dvd's.
"it will be very hard to create very deep emotions like sadness or love, things that drive the movies,"
false. cf. Final Fantasy VI-IX, Mother 3, Lone Survivor, et al.
Also we don't NEED games to do what movies already do. We need them to do different, new stuff.
false. cf. Final Fantasy VI-IX, Mother 3, Lone Survivor, et al.
Also we don't NEED games to do what movies already do. We need them to do different, new stuff.
"Right now, I cannot think of a single graphically "realistic" game that has innovated this generation."
Crysis was innovative with its nanosuit and physics based gameplay. (Shoot tree to drop it on enemies, punch down building to do the same)
But then that's the only one I can think of and it could have done it without realistic visuals.
Crysis was innovative with its nanosuit and physics based gameplay. (Shoot tree to drop it on enemies, punch down building to do the same)
But then that's the only one I can think of and it could have done it without realistic visuals.
i think he means, in relation to emotions, its hard to see or feel emotion from a character with cartoony or artsy or not so real looking grfx. i take it more like hes saying we need photo realistic grfx to help display more emotion in some games. not all games. like better grfx down the line will help developers show more emotions in their characters in games that require more personal story telling.
I'm going to give this knobhead the benefit of doubt and suggest that he's basically saying that he wants new hardware; which is every industry head's hot topic complaint at the moment.
Unfortunately, in his silly roundabout way and a bid for column pages, he's come across as a right numpty. Nothing wrong with asking what you want upfront, but there you go.
Unfortunately, in his silly roundabout way and a bid for column pages, he's come across as a right numpty. Nothing wrong with asking what you want upfront, but there you go.
And 2K drops down in rankings in my lists of favourite publisher's. I'm adding them partially to my boycott list. I'll ONLY be buying stylish, non-photoreal games from them.
Luckily, their most anticipated upcoming titles fill that criteria.
Seriously though, making games look "better" (read: photoreal isn't necessarily better) does not equate to innovation. Let's go over some real world analogies to highlight how silly this statement is.
Oh man, did you see how much hotter Ruby is with makeup on? INNOVATION!
I just painted my car dark red, it looks much nicer now... INNOVATION!
When I clean my mirror, my reflection is so much clearer! INNOVATION!
Luckily, their most anticipated upcoming titles fill that criteria.
Seriously though, making games look "better" (read: photoreal isn't necessarily better) does not equate to innovation. Let's go over some real world analogies to highlight how silly this statement is.
Oh man, did you see how much hotter Ruby is with makeup on? INNOVATION!
I just painted my car dark red, it looks much nicer now... INNOVATION!
When I clean my mirror, my reflection is so much clearer! INNOVATION!
Occasionally I look for a way to play devil's advocate, but in this situation I can't find any argument to support them. 2K, you have truly stumped me with your backwards logic.
hmm i guess the more i think about it, i have no emotions when it comes to games. so i guess this doesnt really effect me. because its just a game. i mean yeah that princess was kidnapped by the bad guy and he killed her father with a lightning bolt. but the quest must go on. i cant sit here and cry about it.
but im still waiting for The Last Guardian. maybe that will light a fire in this black hole of a heart.
but im still waiting for The Last Guardian. maybe that will light a fire in this black hole of a heart.
To be fair I think they are going off of their own data from the success of their own "photorealistic-kind of a new genre-but not really" game with L.A. Noire. That still felt pretty stylized, in a sort of traditional noir/neo-noir sense. Seems like a pretty weird statement to make.
What Hartmann seems to fail to realize with that comment is how you use the tools is far more important then the tool itself. I've seen an awesome 6 ft wooden sculpture of a motorbike pulling a wheelie that was carved using a chainsaw. As well as that, look at a group like Stomp that makes awesome music without a single instrument.
You know one of the most involving stories in a game I've read in a while is? The Phoenix Wright trilogy. You know what else? It's got anime graphics, characters with puns for names, humor out the wazoo, and spirit mediums. There's your proof photorealism isn't that important.
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