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To be honest, PC players shouldnt really be all that excited for this. Id rather some good modder's get together and do something better. Hell, im sure there is better out there right now. Fuck Bethesda and their bullshit.
Why do people keep comparing this to Shivering Isles? It was never supposed to be on that level! Dawngaurd is the equivalent to Knights of the Nine, the first DLC for Oblivion and the smaller of the two. The next DLC for Skyrim will be bigger and more comparable to Shivering Isles. The same thing happened with Morrowind. Smaller (bit still sizeable) expansion first followed by one that was more ambitious with it's own land mass. This should be really obvious, yet people still persist in comparing Dawnguard to something it was never meant to to compared with!
"I felt like they were setting a goal to be as ambitious as Shivering Isles, but didn't quite reach their mark."
Actually, this whole DLC add-on was made out of the game jam they did, so their goal was never as high as shivering isles was with this add-on.
Actually, this whole DLC add-on was made out of the game jam they did, so their goal was never as high as shivering isles was with this add-on.
Right, but Bethesda said it would take "10-20 hours to beat". They stated it was more ambitious than any Fallout 3 DLC. Knights of the Nine was super small; it was a lot more ambitious than that. However you choose to frame it, it was a tall order.
Hence "I felt like they were setting a [high] goal." I feel like they did not meet that goal. It'll be interesting to see what the next add-ons bring to the table.
Hence "I felt like they were setting a [high] goal." I feel like they did not meet that goal. It'll be interesting to see what the next add-ons bring to the table.
I don't think its fair to compare most things to Shivering Isles, its really kind of the golden standard for dlc this generation. I don't think the point of this was to be that either. I thought it was a solid piece of DLC, kind of was a tad surprised at how many people were kind of disappointed in it.
I think they are going to work out most of the kinks in this one until it gets released on other platforms. I would be kind of dumb of them to make this just 360 exclusive.
I think they are going to work out most of the kinks in this one until it gets released on other platforms. I would be kind of dumb of them to make this just 360 exclusive.
why would we not want it to be a gold standard. there was a lot of hype like it was the next shivering Island. shit sucked move on.
I absolutely enjoyed Dawnguard and found the glitches to be very few. The intent of the expansion was different from prior effort - not so much to add a whole new landmass like Shivering Isles did, but integrate a number of new areas into the existing landscape of Skyrim and add two new lenses to look at the world through. Its not fair or realistic to compare it to Shivering Isles.
Every review of the content I've seen barely even scratches the surface of what was added. They never mention how the two home fortresses serve as a very practical home base for adventuring - completely with most - if not all - crafting stations once you've quested the NPCs needed. I see nothing said about the new and imaginative zone designs, water flow elements, nothing said about the new werewolf perk tree and few mentions of some context added to older dungeons. Or that Serana is hands-down one of the best followers you could hope to have. Or that the factions are far more meaningful than most of what's found in Skyrim in terms of guild quests.
Dawnguard actually felt like it had some New Vegas in it for that.
They mention the new dwemer ruin sidequest and playing vampires and that's it. They probably didn't experience the content any more than they did Skyrim before it. Some of the "glitches" they mention aren't even glitches. The vampire ambushes in town don't kill NPCs, for example, just put them down for a day at worst and then they're back reminding you they work for Belathor or that they're Erikur's sister.
I've enjoyed the experience so much I started my characters over from scratch to take on both sides of the story and have that consequence of faction following me everywhere. Plus I like the tension crossbows add. They're more powerful than bows, but you're more vulnerable for using them due to the slow reload.
Every review of the content I've seen barely even scratches the surface of what was added. They never mention how the two home fortresses serve as a very practical home base for adventuring - completely with most - if not all - crafting stations once you've quested the NPCs needed. I see nothing said about the new and imaginative zone designs, water flow elements, nothing said about the new werewolf perk tree and few mentions of some context added to older dungeons. Or that Serana is hands-down one of the best followers you could hope to have. Or that the factions are far more meaningful than most of what's found in Skyrim in terms of guild quests.
Dawnguard actually felt like it had some New Vegas in it for that.
They mention the new dwemer ruin sidequest and playing vampires and that's it. They probably didn't experience the content any more than they did Skyrim before it. Some of the "glitches" they mention aren't even glitches. The vampire ambushes in town don't kill NPCs, for example, just put them down for a day at worst and then they're back reminding you they work for Belathor or that they're Erikur's sister.
I've enjoyed the experience so much I started my characters over from scratch to take on both sides of the story and have that consequence of faction following me everywhere. Plus I like the tension crossbows add. They're more powerful than bows, but you're more vulnerable for using them due to the slow reload.
That was an excellent post, TSP. Thanks for taking the time to explain all that. I'm not a 360 gamer so I haven't tried Dawnguard yet but I certainly will now because of you.
"But what does everyone else think? Should prospective PS3 and PC owners be excited to plunk down $20?"
Personally, not quite, but I'll be happy to plunk down $20 for the whole package in the next big sale.
Personally, not quite, but I'll be happy to plunk down $20 for the whole package in the next big sale.
@Silent
Awesome comment! I actually felt the sting of a number of bugs, most of which were primarily found on the Vampire Lord portion of the DLC, specifically dealing with the transformation sequence. A number of times I found myself stuck in the ground as a result of shapeshifting, or using the bat ability, etc.
I found that a number of key NPCs would randomly become hostile if I didn't "approach them the right way" during the Vampire Lord questline. This issue was confirmed over on Bethesda's forums as a non-isolated problem.
I also felt like it was very jarring to give you the opportunity to technically become a Vampire Lord the entire game, but make a number of quest doors too small for you to fit through, and take away a number of basic mechanics, like the ability to interact with most of the environment. The few second delay when changing feels a bit off as well, especially when you have to do it so often.
Quest wise, to avoid spoilers, that one special area (you know what I mean) during the Vampire Lord questline was extremely barren, disappointing, and the actual quests were very redundant. Although the story had its moments, overall I didn't come away impressed.
I didn't think the non-vampiric dawnguard story had as much going for it either. It felt a bit more "by the books", and something akin to a quest found in the normal game. Crossbows were a nice addition for sure, but it all comes down to personal choice, in terms of whether or not you'll actually use them. I agree on the vampire ambushes -- they're not an issue. People asked for more consequences for their actions -- Bethesda delivered, when they punished you for defying the Vampire Lord cove.
What I was impressed about the most was the additions that it added to the open world (the amazing thing, is that despite your highlights of the content, is even you didn't mention things like the Thieves Guild NPC that can change your appearance).
But I still felt like that addition, while the strongest of the bunch, was ancillary, and not worth a full $20 asking price. I think people should research Dawnguard a bit to see if its worth buying -- especially on PC, where a number of mods alleviate issues with the main game (such as the crafting station filled home locations). Hopefully this back-and-forth will help!
Awesome comment! I actually felt the sting of a number of bugs, most of which were primarily found on the Vampire Lord portion of the DLC, specifically dealing with the transformation sequence. A number of times I found myself stuck in the ground as a result of shapeshifting, or using the bat ability, etc.
I found that a number of key NPCs would randomly become hostile if I didn't "approach them the right way" during the Vampire Lord questline. This issue was confirmed over on Bethesda's forums as a non-isolated problem.
I also felt like it was very jarring to give you the opportunity to technically become a Vampire Lord the entire game, but make a number of quest doors too small for you to fit through, and take away a number of basic mechanics, like the ability to interact with most of the environment. The few second delay when changing feels a bit off as well, especially when you have to do it so often.
Quest wise, to avoid spoilers, that one special area (you know what I mean) during the Vampire Lord questline was extremely barren, disappointing, and the actual quests were very redundant. Although the story had its moments, overall I didn't come away impressed.
I didn't think the non-vampiric dawnguard story had as much going for it either. It felt a bit more "by the books", and something akin to a quest found in the normal game. Crossbows were a nice addition for sure, but it all comes down to personal choice, in terms of whether or not you'll actually use them. I agree on the vampire ambushes -- they're not an issue. People asked for more consequences for their actions -- Bethesda delivered, when they punished you for defying the Vampire Lord cove.
What I was impressed about the most was the additions that it added to the open world (the amazing thing, is that despite your highlights of the content, is even you didn't mention things like the Thieves Guild NPC that can change your appearance).
But I still felt like that addition, while the strongest of the bunch, was ancillary, and not worth a full $20 asking price. I think people should research Dawnguard a bit to see if its worth buying -- especially on PC, where a number of mods alleviate issues with the main game (such as the crafting station filled home locations). Hopefully this back-and-forth will help!
I prefer the weapon that lets me burn, freeze, shock, paralyze and soultrap enemies all in one shot.
So yeah, enchanted crosshows.
So yeah, enchanted crosshows.
Especially the dwarven crossbows that ignore 50% of the enemies defense rating. With armor enchantments I actually had a crossbow up at 525 base damage.
I had to turn up the difficulty to master fro that.
I had to turn up the difficulty to master fro that.
honestly, it's taking too long.
DLC for Fallout New Vegas was 3 parts deep by now (ie 9 months after release), and considering the fourth and final piece came out in september, all of FNVs DLC will have been released in the time it's taken beth to release 1 for skyrim.
i haven't touched the game in some time, and if they plan to get any more business from me they're going to have to do something incredibly special. otherwise, just forget about it and make me another fallout game!
DLC for Fallout New Vegas was 3 parts deep by now (ie 9 months after release), and considering the fourth and final piece came out in september, all of FNVs DLC will have been released in the time it's taken beth to release 1 for skyrim.
i haven't touched the game in some time, and if they plan to get any more business from me they're going to have to do something incredibly special. otherwise, just forget about it and make me another fallout game!
I actually really liked Dawnguard, I would definitely recommend it. I like how instead of just adding a chunk of world through some travel point, most of it was added by literally extending the map north and south. It feels more like it makes the game bigger than just adds a smaller thing on the side. I didn't find much in the way of glitches either.
@psycho - I'd rather have a Dawnguard/:Lost and Damned kind of wait on DLC that the add-ons FNV, of which only Dead Money was good. Everything else felt like an empty quickie attempting to resolve one loose plot thread from the main game I had practically forgotten.
It was cool the factioning was still in them at times, but they mostly felt like a waste of time.
It was cool the factioning was still in them at times, but they mostly felt like a waste of time.
Bot me and the Wifey enjoyed at LEAST 130hr campaigns on this on the PS3... I'll just sit tight and wait for the obligitory GOTY edition and pick it up then.... Hell, i treated myself to both morrowing and obilivion during the steam sale, so I've got literally months of TES gaming backstory to catch up on, and that's without mods!
I just think the 360 exclusivity was a dumb move for everyone. They should lower the PC and PS3 price for Dawnguard.
Can't wait for Dawnguard PC, though. I always dig Bethesda's expansion. Yes, even the ones that aren't super-amazing.
Can't wait for Dawnguard PC, though. I always dig Bethesda's expansion. Yes, even the ones that aren't super-amazing.
Im relatively excited for it, but that has more to do with its modding potential. It adds new perk trees and a weapon type, some new creatures, new vampire powers... lots of neat stuff to play around with.
@ TSP
I feel the same way about the New Vegas DLC, but I count Dead Money in the junk pile. Old World Blues was bigger, different, and devoid of the annoying and often completely arbitrary restrictions. I'd like to see more like that in Skyrim's expansions. Sorta sounds like Dawngaurd does it right.
I feel the same way about the New Vegas DLC, but I count Dead Money in the junk pile. Old World Blues was bigger, different, and devoid of the annoying and often completely arbitrary restrictions. I'd like to see more like that in Skyrim's expansions. Sorta sounds like Dawngaurd does it right.
@ The Silent Protagonist
i see where you're going with that but it's definitely an issue of personal taste rather than more time = better DLC. i loved all the FNV DLC, perhaps honest hearts less than the others. dead money is widely regarded as the worst part, and although i don't agree it just illustrates my point further.
the bigger issue for me is the wait. there are lots of other games out there to play, waiting perhaps an entire year for DLC for one i played to death already just isn't that appealing (even if it's as good as you say it is!).
i see where you're going with that but it's definitely an issue of personal taste rather than more time = better DLC. i loved all the FNV DLC, perhaps honest hearts less than the others. dead money is widely regarded as the worst part, and although i don't agree it just illustrates my point further.
the bigger issue for me is the wait. there are lots of other games out there to play, waiting perhaps an entire year for DLC for one i played to death already just isn't that appealing (even if it's as good as you say it is!).
If technical issues are still plaguing Dawngaurd, I'm happy Beth is taking their time before releasing it on PS3 or PC.
Be patient. The 360 version hasn't been stable for me, hopefully they'll fix it so that the PS3 and PC versions are released.
(Before Dawnguard, Skyrim froze maybe 5 times in 200hrs. After Dawnguard it freezes every few hours)
(Before Dawnguard, Skyrim froze maybe 5 times in 200hrs. After Dawnguard it freezes every few hours)
People out there think Skyrim is crap!?! I haven't been this enthralled by a videogame in years. What are they comparing it to? What majestically beautiful videogame lands have those people been experiencing that I have apparently never heard of?
I haven't gotten to it yet, and I won't claim to know what else it brought other then quests or a few new weapons and such (and those other things it did bring, like any graphical upgrades or physics probably could have been included in a patch, I supposed), but I wish the expansion (cause, lets face it, at $20 it better be that) doesn't really make a mark on anything that I've seen other then guards being REALLY annoying about making sure I know the Dawnguard is forming back up.
Like I said, I might be missing underlying things, like the water physics like Silent said, as a "thing" Dawnguard brought, given I bought the game and Dawnguard together in the same day and don't know one without the other.. But that stuff feels like something that didn't need to be in a $20 DLC, but in the game from the beginning. I don't know if I hate the idea of basically paying for stuff that could have been in patches, but it doesn't sit very well with me regardless.
Otherwise, unless your going to rush out of the way and do those quests first, or amidst everything else the game has to offer , I don't feel they make a mark on anything. I'm planning on doing them after the main story, and frankly I don't think anythings different right now because they're out there in their little area. This zone isn't THAT far from the main game world, it could have a greater effect then what it does on that world (you know, without actually adding more glitches...)
So, specially given that PS3 players have had their own unique problems with the game, I'd say they shouldn't be too excited over it. PC people maybe should, if only because they get access to console commands to help them make some of the bugs a little more manageable.
Also, I'm with Marc Allen a bit on what he said. Bethesda really can't keep doing what they do and making these games ridiculously buggy. I really don't know how we let them get away with it, and award them with Game of the Year awards, when we shit on so many other games that have far less problems in this area. Yeah, I know, these games are awesome, Fallout 3 being one of my all time favorite games, but theres something about loving these games that pisses me off when I start one up and spend my time debating on starting to quest because I fear that the next quest I do will glitch out, causing me to either lose a huge chunk of my time, or worse, have some sort of glitchy effect on some other quest that I won't know about till 20 hours later.
They really need to clean up their shit, specially if they're serious about an Elder Scrolls MMO. MMO players will destroy them if its anything like one of their Single player games.
Like I said, I might be missing underlying things, like the water physics like Silent said, as a "thing" Dawnguard brought, given I bought the game and Dawnguard together in the same day and don't know one without the other.. But that stuff feels like something that didn't need to be in a $20 DLC, but in the game from the beginning. I don't know if I hate the idea of basically paying for stuff that could have been in patches, but it doesn't sit very well with me regardless.
Otherwise, unless your going to rush out of the way and do those quests first, or amidst everything else the game has to offer , I don't feel they make a mark on anything. I'm planning on doing them after the main story, and frankly I don't think anythings different right now because they're out there in their little area. This zone isn't THAT far from the main game world, it could have a greater effect then what it does on that world (you know, without actually adding more glitches...)
So, specially given that PS3 players have had their own unique problems with the game, I'd say they shouldn't be too excited over it. PC people maybe should, if only because they get access to console commands to help them make some of the bugs a little more manageable.
Also, I'm with Marc Allen a bit on what he said. Bethesda really can't keep doing what they do and making these games ridiculously buggy. I really don't know how we let them get away with it, and award them with Game of the Year awards, when we shit on so many other games that have far less problems in this area. Yeah, I know, these games are awesome, Fallout 3 being one of my all time favorite games, but theres something about loving these games that pisses me off when I start one up and spend my time debating on starting to quest because I fear that the next quest I do will glitch out, causing me to either lose a huge chunk of my time, or worse, have some sort of glitchy effect on some other quest that I won't know about till 20 hours later.
They really need to clean up their shit, specially if they're serious about an Elder Scrolls MMO. MMO players will destroy them if its anything like one of their Single player games.
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